Saturday, October 15, 2022

Refuting an Argument Against Latter-day Saint Ecclesiology

 I was sent the following screenshot by a friend of what has to be one of the dumbest arguments against Latter-day Saint theology (not just ecclesiology) I have encountered:



When even Michael Flournoy thinks your argument is odd, that speaks volumes and should set alarm bells off.


Firstly, it should first be noted that the order that Aaron focuses upon is reversed in Luke 11:49:

 

Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute.

 

Secondly, and to do something Aaron would never do, and steel-man an argument, a better text to use would be 1 Cor 12:28:

 

 

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

 

The argument by many commentators is that Paul is providing a listing, in descending order of importance, church offices, with the office of “apostle” being of greater importance than “prophet.” However, even then this is not a problem for Latter-day Saint ecclesiology. What distinguishes Joseph Smith and his successors is not the spirit of prophecy, or being a Prophet, but the apostleship. Wilford Woodruff explained that

 

As to President Young his labors have been with us. It has been remarked sometimes, by certain individuals, that President Young has said in public that he was not a prophet nor the son of a prophet. I have travelled with him since 1833 or the spring of 1834; I have travelled a good many thousand miles with him and have heard him preach a great many thousand sermons; but I have never heard him make that remark in my life. He is a prophet, I am a prophet, you are, and anybody is a prophet who has the testimony of Jesus Christ, for that is the spirit of prophecy. The Elders of Israel are prophets. A prophet is not so great as an Apostle. Christ has set, in his Church, first, Apostles; they hold the keys of the kingdom of God. Any man who has travelled with President Young knows he is a prophet of God. He has foretold a great many things that have come to pass. All the Saints who are well acquainted with him know that he is governed and controlled by the power of God and the revelations of Jesus Christ. His works are before the world; they are before the heavens; before the earth; before the wicked as well as the righteous; and it is the influence of President Young that the world is opposed to. This Priesthood, these keys of the kingdom of God that have been sealed upon him, the world is at war against; let them say what they may, these things are what they are at enmity with. (December 12, 1869 | JOD 13:165)

 

Brigham Young explained the differences between the titles "prophet," "apostle," and "president." In a conference address delivered April 6, 1853, he said:

 

Perhaps it may make some of you stumble, were I to ask you a question. Does a man's being a Prophet in this Church prove that he shall be the President of it? I answer, No! A man may be a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and it may have nothing to do with his being the President of the Church. Suffice to say, that Joseph was the President of the Church, as long as he lived; the people chose to have it so. He always filled that responsible station by the voice of the people. Can you find any revelation appointing the President of the Church? The keys of the Priesthood were committed to Joseph, to build up the Kingdom of God on the earth, and were not to be taken from him in time or in eternity, but when he was called to preside over the Church, it was by the voice of the people; though he held the keys of the Priesthood, independent of their voice. (JOD 1:113)

 

To Brigham Young, being a prophet was secondary to being an apostle and having keys from God. He explained the difference in these words:

 

Many persons think if they see a Prophet they see one possessing all the keys of the Kingdom of God on the earth. This is not so; many persons have prophesied without having any Priesthood on them at all . . . To be a prophet is simply to be a foreteller of future events; but an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ has the keys of the Holy Priesthood, and the power thereof is sealed upon his head, and by this he is authorized to proclaim the truth to the people, and if they receive it, well; if not, the sin be upon their own heads. (July 18, 1869 | JOD 13:144)

 

It should be obvious that Aaron Shafovaloff is not an honest actor; instead, he is a disingenuous lying hack.