Commenting on Jer 15:1, Catholic apologist Mario Lopez wrote:
In the Old Testament we see in Jeremiah a reference to people in God’s presence interceding for those on earth, Jer. 15:1
Then the LORD said to me, "Though Moses and Samuel stood before me, yet my heart would not turn toward this people. Send them out of my sight, and let them go!
The background is the prophet Jeremiah had been interceding for the people, who had abandoned God and turned to everybody and everything except him (Jer. 14). God refused to listen to Jeremiah’s pleading because of their wickedness. Then God says that Moses and Samuel were interceding for them!!! In the Old Testament, Moses and Samuel always interceded for their people (Ex. 32:11-14, Nm 14:11-25, 1 Sm 7:5-9, 12:19-23). Well, Moses and Samuel were both long physically dead, but now, during the time of Jeremiah, they were still interceding!!! Moses and Samuel had such charity, that God truly considered their prayers. But since the people were so wicked, even their intercession would not succeed. We need to be in God’s grace in order for the prayers to be the most efficacious. Even though God denied their prayers, it was because the people were so wicked, that they would get punished. Implied is that Moses and Samuel’s intercession was even more effective than the prophet Jeremiah, but they were not listened to only because of their wickedness. So, in the time of Jeremiah, there is intercession for people by Moses and Samuel, who while dead physically, were still alive spiritually.
Actually, Jer 15:1 does not teach that Moses and Samuel were before God, interceding before the people, at the time of Jeremiah. The Hebrew of this verse reads:
וַיֹּ֤אמֶר יְהוָה֙ אֵלַ֔י אִם־יַעֲמֹ֙ד מֹשֶׁ֤ה וּשְׁמוּאֵל֙ לְפָנַ֔י אֵ֥ין נַפְשִׁ֖י אֶל־הָעָ֣ם הַזֶּ֑ה שַׁלַּ֥ח מֵֽעַל־פָּנַ֖י וְיֵצֵֽאוּ׃
The Hebrew uses the particle אִם “if”; according to HALOT, in the context of Jer 15:1 and other passages, it has the sense of:
concessive even though, Arb. waÀin = Latin etsi: אִם צָדַקְתִּי even if I were innocent Jb 915, יַעֲמֹד אִם even though he stood Jr 151;
The 1985 JPS Tanakh correctly translates this verse thusly:
The Lord said to me, "Even if Moses and Samuel were to intercede with Me, I would not be won over to that people. Dismiss them from My presence, and let them go forth!
This is also reflected in the LXX:
καὶ εἶπεν κύριος πρός με ἐὰν στῇ Μωυσῆς καὶ Σαμουηλ πρὸ προσώπου μου οὐκ ἔστιν ἡ ψυχή μου πρὸς αὐτούς ἐξαπόστειλον τὸν λαὸν τοῦτον καὶ ἐξελθέτωσαν
The Greek uses εαν, a conjunction which, according to BDAG, is a
marker of condition, with probability of activity expressed in the verb left open and thereby suited esp. for generalized statements
The New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS) renders the passage as follows:
And the Lord said to me: If Moyses and Samouel stood before me, my soul would not be toward them. Send this people away, and let them go!
Commenting on this verse, William McKane wrote:
Jeremiah is portrayed as one who seeks to prevail with Yahweh on behalf of the people, but his plea is refused and a threat of carnage, famine, pestilence and exile is issued. For those who ponder these matters, probably in the exilic period, there are exceptional factors which influence the outcome of Jeremiah’s ministry and make him both a true prophet and an ineffective intercessor. It was a time, so they represent, when not even Moses and Samuel could have deflected Yahweh from his purposes of retribution. (William McKane, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on Jeremiah [2 vols.; Edinburgh: T&T Clark International, 1986], 1:333)
So, this verse is not teaching that Moses and Samuel were interceding in heaven when Jeremiah wrote these words; instead, God, in his oracle to Jeremiah, is engaging in hyperbole to stress the sinful nature of the people at the time of Jeremiah.
Interestingly enough, Roman Catholic dogmatic theology does not allow for Lopez’s interpretation. How so? In Catholic theology, the deceased righteous saints, before the descensus ad inferos (Christ’s decent into Hades) and their release thereafter, so they could not have been in the presence of God in heaven during the time of Jeremiah! As one Catholic apologist noted:
The Church also holds as dogma that the souls of most Old Testament saints were released from “Sheol” (Hebrew: שְׁאוֹל) or “Hades” (Greek: αδης) when Christ visited this realm immediately after his death, in accord with the statement in the Apostles Creed “he descended into hell.” The descent into Sheol or Hades corresponds to other Scriptures which refer to the conscious abode of the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, before the resurrection of Christ, e.g., “he went and preached to the spirits in prison” (1Pt 3:19); “the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead” (1Pt 4:6); “the heart of the earth” (Mt 12:40); “Abraham’s bosom” (Lk 16:22-26); “the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God...and live” (Jn 5:25); “the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life” (Mt 27:52-53); “he also descended to the lower, earthly regions” (Ep 4:9); “you and your sons will be with me” (1Sm 28:19); “consign to the earth below...with those who go down to the pit” (Ez 32:18ff); “he leads down to Hades” (Tb 13:2); “the dominion of Hades” (Ws 1:14; 2:1; 16:13). These interpretations were upheld at the Council of Rome (745 AD; Denz. 587); the Council of Toledo (625 AD; Denz. 485). See Catholic Catechism, ¶¶631-635. (Robert A. Sungenis, Not by Faith Alone: The Biblical Evidence for the Catholic Doctrine of Justification [2d ed.; Catholic Apologetics International Publishing Inc., 2009], 64 n. 90) (*)
So, we see that Jer 15:1 does not support the Roman Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) understanding of the Communion of the Saints.
For a short work on the Catholic understanding of the Communion of Saints, see:
Patrick Madrid, Any Friend of God's Is a Friend of Mine: A Biblical and Historical Explanation of the Catholic Doctrine of the Communion of Saints (San Diego: Basilica Press, 1996)
For more on 1 Pet 3:18-20 and Jesus' descent into Hades, see:
(*)
For those curious as to the Councils of Toledo and Rome, here are the relevant entries from Denzinger (I know Latter-day Saints are always interested in discussions of the descent of Christ into hades):
HONORIUS I: October 27, 625-October 12, 638
485-486: Synod of TOLEDO, begun December 5, 633
. . .
Trinitarian and Christological Creed
(Chap. 1) In conformity with the Sacred Scriptures and the teaching that we have received from the holy Fathers, we confess that the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit <are> of one unique divinity and substance; believing the Trinity in a diversity of Persons and proclaiming unity in the divinity, we neither confuse the Persons nor separate the substance. We say that the Father <was> neither made nor generated by anyone; we affirm that the Son <was> not made by the Father but generated; we truly profess that the Holy Spirit <was> neither created nor generated but proceeds form the Father and the Son. However, our Lord Jesus Christ himself, Son of God and creator of all things, was generated before all ages from the substance of the father, and in the latter times, for the redemption of the world, he descended from the Father, he who never creased being with the Father; he truly became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, the glorious holy Mother of God, and he alone was born from her. The same Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Holy Trinity, receiving the complete soul and flesh of man but without sin, remains what he was and assumes what he was not: equal to the father in regard to divinity, less than the father in regard to humanity, having in one Person the properties of the two natures; for in him <are> two natures, God and man, not, however, two sons and two gods, but the same Person in both natures; he underwent his Passion and death for our salvation, not in the power of divinity, but in the weakness of humanity; he descended into hell to free the holy ones being held there, and, after having conquered the rule and domination of death, he rose again, ascended then into heaven, and, in the future, he will come to judge the living and the dead. Cleansed by his death and blood, we have attained remission of sins in order to be resurrected by him in the last days in that flesh in which we now live and likewise in the form in which the Lord was resurrected: some receiving eternal life from him for merits of justice; others, the sentence of eternal punishment because of their sins.
This is the faith of the Catholic Church. This is the profession of faith we conserve and hold; and whoever will guard it with great firmness will have eternal salvation. (Heinrich Denzinger, Compendium of Creeds, Definitions, and Declarations on Matters of Faith and Morals, ed. Peter Hünermann, Robert Fastiggi, and Anne Englund Nash [43rd ed; San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2012], 166-67)
587: Synod of ROME, Session 3, October 25, 745
. . .
Descent of Christ into Hell
587 . . . Clement, who by his stupidity rejects the decisions of the holy Fathers and all the synodal acts and who introduces Judaism even for Christians when he preaches that it is licit to assume the wife of a dead brother and who, moreover, preached that the Lord Jesus Christ, in descending into hell, delivered from there all the pious and the impious, is stripped of all priestly function and bound by the chain of anathema. (Ibid., 204)
