Monday, April 7, 2025

Examining Bates Morris' Attempt to Parallel Mother Shipton's Prophetic Poem with Joseph Smith's Prophecies in D&C 87

In a booklet dedicated to downplaying the prophetic nature of D&C 87, one critic appealed to the “prophetic” nature of a poem attributed to Mother Shipton:

 

Mother Shipton's prophecy beats Jose Smith's away out of sight. It reads:

 

"Carriages without horses shall go,

And accidents fill the world with woe;

Around the world through shall fly

In the twinkling of an eye;

Water shall yet wonders do,

Now strange but yet they shall be true;

The world upside down shall be,

And gold be found at the root of a tree:

Through the hill man shall ride,

And horse nor ass be at this side;

Underwater men shall walk,

Shall ride, shall sleep, shall talk;

in the air shall men be seen,

In white, in blue, in green;

Iron in the water shall float

As easy as a wooden boat;

Gold shall be found and shown

IN land that's now not known;

Fire and water shall wonders do;

England shall at last admit a Jew;

The end of the world shall come

In eighteen hundred and eighty-one."

 

Whether Mother Shipton wrote this prophecy or some one else, it is a wonderful collection of the improbables and impossibles, as people then thought. Mother Shipton did not claim divine inspiration for it. It was written as a joke–just as much as "Mother goose when she wanted to wander–rode through the air on a very fine gander." The joke consisted in putting all the impossible things together and predicting the materialization as an accomplished fact in future years.

 

These lines date back to Charles the First. Mother Shipton speaks of England yet to admit a Jew. Well, the Jews were at one time banished from England, and were not allowed to return until Cromwell's time. So, the prophecy must have been written prior to Cromwell's time. Anyway, it dates back several centuries, and as near as I can figure it out it was not far from the time of Charles the First.

 

(1) Here is predicted the automobile,

(2) Many accidents

(3) The electric wire around the world

(4) Hydraulic pressure perfected

(5) Unrest of the "world–upside down"

(6) Buried gold "at the root of a tree"

(7) Railroad trains through the hills

(8) The submarine

(9) The airplane

(10) The iron clad boat

(11) Gold in California and Alaska

(12) fire and steam applied

(13) Jews return to England

(14) The only failure–the end of the world in 1881.

 

Here are thirteen points in Mother Shipton's prophecy that all came true, and she failed on only one. She put that so far ahead that she did not live to be jeered at for the one failure.

 

But Joe Smith's prophecy on the rebellion was plagiarized from politicians and divine inspiration claimed for it.

 

Mormonism, with such a leader, was founded on lies from beginning to end, and perpetrated by fraud and deception. (Bates Morris, Joe Smith's Prophecy on the Rebellion: Examined and Found Wanting [Bates Morris, 1927], 27-29)

 

For Morris, the “prophetic” poem came from either Shipton or a contemporary, and “predicts” many events and inventions, with 13/14 (or ~92%) accuracy. However, this prophecy is an invention, not by a contemporary of Shipton, but from Charles Hindley, and dates to 1862.

 

The following appeared in Macon Weekly Telegraph (Georgia) (July 30, 1880):

 

“In 1862, Mr. Charles Hindley of Brighton, England, issued what purported to be an exact reprint of “A Chap-book Version of Mother Shipton’s Prophecies, from the Edition of 1448.” In this, for the first time, there were pith and point, and special application. All modern discoveries were plainly described, and one prophecy which began,

 

“Carries without horses shall go,”
and set forth the railroads, telegraphs, steamers, and other modern inventions, wound up with
“The world unto an end shall come
In eighteen hundred and eighty-one.”

This, of course, quite startled the public. In all other important events of the nineteenth century had been so aptly described, why should not the last prediction be fulfilled? (source)

 

However, Hindley would admit his fraud. William H. Harrison, in his 1881 monograph on Shipton, provided the following details:

 

The following is the most largely circulated form of one of Mother Shipton’s reputed prophecies, which of late years has been exercising the public mind. I quote it from p 450 of Notes and Queries, December 7th, 1872, but since as well as before then, its circulation has been extensive.

 

“ANCIENT PREDICTION,
“(Entitled by popular tradition ‘Mother Shipton’s Prophecy,’)

 

“Published in 1448, republished in 1641.

 

[RB: Poem is recounted, same as above as provided by Morris]

 

. . .

 

The three earliest records in the British Museum Library, in relation to Mother Shipton, agree closely with each other, and none of them contain the lines printed on page 13, in my first Chapter, ending with the too celebrated couplet:--

 

“The world to an end shall come,
in eighteen hundred and eighty one.”

 

The lines in question and the notorious prophecy about the end of the world were fabricated about twenty years ago by Mr. Charles Hindley. The editor of Notes and Queries says, in the issue of the journal dated April 26th 1873:--

 

“Mr. Charles Hindley, of Brighton, in a letter to us, has made a clean breast of having fabricated the Prophecy quoted at page 450 of our last volume, with some ten others included in his reprint of a chap-book version, published in 1862.” (William H. Harrison, Mother Shipton Investigated: The Result of Critical Examination in the British Museum Library, of The Literature Relating to the Yorkshire Sibyl [London: W. H. Harrison, 1881], 12-13, 42-43)


Needless to say, many of the discoveries/inventions "predicted" in the poem were discovered/invented prior to 1862. The first submarine was designed and built by Cornelis Drebbel in 1620, while the principle of hydraulic pressure was discovered by Blaise Pascal in the 1640s.

The attempt to parallel the poem, falsely attributed to Shipton, with Joseph Smith’s prophecies (plural), as contained in D&C 87, is fallacious. There is probably a reason why I have only found this in Morris' 1927 booklet.

 

Further Reading:

 

Resources on Joseph Smith’s Prophecies

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Bede on Luke 18:13-14

  

How much assurance of forgiveness he rightfully offers to penitents, in that the tax collector, who perfectly recognized the guilt of his wickedness, wept and confessed, and if he came to the temple an unjust man, he returned from the temple justified. Allegorically, the Pharisee stands for the people of the Jews, who extoll their own merits from the justification of the Law. But the tax collector is the people of the Gentiles, who standing at a distance from God, confess their sins. Of these, the first drew away from God, humbled by pride; the second, exalted by lamentation, deserved to draw near him. (Bede, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke [trans. Calvin B. Kendall and Faith Wallis; Translated Texts for Historians 85; Liverpool: Liverpool University Press, 2025], 517)

 

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

William R. Schoedel on Ignatius to Polycarp 6:2

  

Be pleasing to him whose soldiers you are, from whom you also receive your wages; let none of you be found a deserter. Let your baptism serve as (your) arms; your faith as (your) helmet; your love as (your) spear; your endurance as (your) panoply; your works are your deposits that you may have the savings you deserve. Be patient, then, with one another in gentleness, as God is with you. May I always benefit from you. (Ignatius to Polycarp 6:2)

 

The imagery shifts in the next section from the household to the army. But just as those who obey the bishop are regarded as servants of God, so the Christian soldiers are called on to please God (“him whose soldiers you are”). The writer of 2 Tim 2:4 also speaks of “pleasing” the one who enlists the Christian soldier. Military metaphors are found across a wide range of religious and philosophical (especially Stoic) literature of the period and were familiar to Jews as well as pagans. Ignatius’ method of comparing parts of the armor with aspects of the Christian faith is reminiscent particularly of Eph 6:11–17 (cf. 1 Thess 5:8); but he introduces a different range of vocabulary and handles the comparisons so didactically that there is less reason here than in the parallel to suspect the influence of Gnostic conceptions of a cosmic conflict between the forces of light and darkness. Three Latinisms occur in the passage: “deserter” (desertor), “deposits” (deposita), and “savings” (accepta). “When gifts of money were given the army on special occasions, the individual soldier received only half of what was due him; the rest was deposited to his credit in the regimental treasury, and he received it (as ἄκκεπτα) if and when he was honorably discharged.” Hahn could find no other instance of these Latinisms in Greek sources. But Preisigke gives an example of δησέρτωρ (“deserter”), and Kiessling several examples of δηπόσιτον or δηπόσειτον (“deposit”) from the papyri. The Latinisms may be as concentrated as they are here because of the conversation of the bishop’s Roman guard. As for his references to the parts of armor, there seems to be some imprecision: “weapons” (any defensive or offensive weapon is covered by the term), “helmet,” and “spear” are clear enough; but “panoply” generally included at least shield, sword, lance, and helmet and seems unnaturally narrowed here. It may be that the passage moves to a climax. In that event, the theological entities may follow some more or less logical order: baptism provides the basic protection and corresponds to the “arms” (ὅπλα) by which the soldier is protected; faith and love represent the fundamental Christian virtues (see on Eph. 1.1; 14.1) and correspond more particularly to the two important weapons named; finally, endurance corresponds to the whole armor (πανοπλία “panoply”) because it must characterize the exercise of all the previously mentioned arms if they are not to fail. Endurance is probably treated as the climax here because Ignatius seeks to confirm the Smyrnaeans in their unity and their support for his cause (see on Pol. 6.1). These are the “deeds” (ἔργα) put on deposit for the Smyrnaeans that will have their reward. Note that support of Ignatius’ plans is shortly to be identified as a “deed” (ἔργον) in which God and the Smyrnaeans cooperate (Pol. 7.3). In our passage the emphasis is on the deeds that make the deed on Ignatius’ behalf possible, namely, those acts in which the Smyrnaeans demonstrate their willingness to bear with one another (in imitation of God’s gracious dealings with them). In any event, Ignatius assumes compliance with his recommendations. For the concluding wish is a formula that he uses to express satisfaction with what he can expect of his addressees (see on Pol. 1.1).

 

Ignatius’ remark about the “gentleness” (πραότης) of God that the Smyrnaeans are to imitate bears a trace of the theory alluded to elsewhere that divine punishment is delayed because of God’s goodness (see on Eph. 11.1; Sm. 9.1). The thought, as we have seen, has a Hellenic coloring; and it is worth noting that Plutarch (De ser. num. vind. 5, 550f) speaks specifically of God’s πραότης (“gentleness”) in discussing reasons for the delay of the punishment of evil-doers. (William R. Schoedel, Ignatius of Antioch: A Commentary on the Letters of Ignatius of Antioch [Hermeneia–a Critical and Historical Commentary on the Bible; Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1985], 275-76)

 

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Gregory of Narek (d. 1003) Identifying Peter with the “Rock” of Matthew 16:18

  

His foremost comrade and partner, first in number and primacy, the solid Rock, the seven-word confession to his credit, the chosen and glorified in harmony with the mystical cycle of this world’s beginning and end, is Cephas, who was pronounced blessed by the lips of the Giver of Life, was inspired by the Father’s benevolence and made wise. And moved by the Spirit of Wisdom to confess rightly, having discerned the eternal purpose for the inscrutable birth, he was deservedly blessed by the statement of the uncreated one: “Blessed are you, Simon, heir to Jonah.” This indescribable gift of blessedness recorded in the Gospel, the very voice of the Creator, is bestowed on all those who join in making the same confession of faith. For when we are in accord with their confession, we become partakers in (their) glory. And by (their) petitioning the Existence who became man, we become fortified by the power of their words and shielded by (their) eternal hope. For the incarnate Savior asked for the redemption of Adam’s progeny, saying: “O my Father on high, I pray that just as in their case, (you bless also) those who will believe in me through their word.” (Gregory of Narek, Encomium on the Holy Apostles 10:45-48, in The Festal Works of St. Gregory of Narek: Annotated Translation of the Odes, Litanies, and Encomia [trans. Abraham Terian; Collegeville, Minn.: Pueblo Book, 2016], 332-33)

 

 

You were sent with deserved glory by the One who descended from the concealed bosom. Through your ordination Agabus and Timothy became prophets. From your ranks the evangelists arose: Mark, the saintly youth who was named High, a disciple of the Rock; Luke, the bearer of the resplendent resurrection, teller of the story of the ascension, an Antiochian young man, a master healer of souls rather than of bodies; others from among you (were) shepherds and teachers. (Encomium on the Holy Apostles 12:60, in ibid., 334)

 

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Sunday, April 6, 2025

Bede on Jesus’ Words to Peter in Luke 21:31-32

  

273/10 [Luke 22:31-32] And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan has sought after you all to sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. Lest the eleven apostles boast or attribute to their own power that they were almost the only ones amongst so many thousand Jews who were said to have stood by the Lord in his trials, he also shows them, that if they had not been protected by the succouring aid of the Lord they could have been destroyed by the same tempest with the others. But when Satan seeks to test them, and to shake them, like one who cleans wheat by winnowing, the Lord teaches that no one’s faith is tested by the devil unless God allows it. Of course, it is Satan’s part to seek to sift the good, /383/ to paint after their affliction with surges of malice. For where he is his jealousy longs to try them, there he seeks, as if craving their assent. But when the Savior, praying for Peter, entreats not that he not be tempted, but that his faith not fail—that is, that after his fault of denial he rise again to his former condition by doing penance—he recommends that it is useful for the saints to be tested by the flames of trials, so that either they may be seen to be tempted because they were strong, or, having recognized their frailty, through their temptations, that they may learn to become stronger, and so, after they have been tested, that they themselves may also receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

 

274/9 [Luke 22:32b] And you, when once you have turned back, strengthen your brothers. Just as I myself, he says, protected your faith by praying, lest it fail when Satan puts you to the test, so remember also to raise up and strengthen any weaker brothers by the example of your penance, lest they perchance despair of forgiveness. He exhorted the same thing after the resurrection when Simon Peter declared for the third time that he loved him (for it was fitting that the love of a third confession was clean the fear of a third denial), and likewise on that third occasion Christ entrusted to him the feeding of his sheep. (Bede, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke [trans. Calvin B. Kendall and Faith Wallis; Translated Texts for Historians 85; Liverpool: Liverpool University Press, 2025], 594-95)

 

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Gregory of Narek (d. 1003) Identifying the "Ancient of Days" of Daniel 7 with Jesus

  

The ranks of the prophets
Sing on that mountain:
“Behold him, God, the Ancient of Days,
Becoming a child, taking a body.”
(Gregory of Narek, Alternate, 21-24, in The Festal Works of St. Gregory of Narek: Annotated Translation of the Odes, Litanies, and Encomia [trans. Abraham Terian; Collegeville, Minn.: Pueblo Book, 2016], 51)

 

 

We who are gathered together (to worship you, Ancient (of Days), the Existent,
lift up our petitions with the sound of festal celebration.
With your rewarding glory come to us who are gathered together, you who are close to everyone,
because of the mediation of your mother, the Virgin
who took away the anguish of the foremother Eve (Gregory of Narek, Litany of St. John the Baptist Recited by Narek, 105-109, in ibid., 67-68)

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Saturday, April 5, 2025

Bede on Luke 22:44 and the Text Speaking of Literal Blood

  

[Luke 22:44] And his sweat became like drops of blood, falling down on the ground. Let no one impute this sweat to weakness, because it is also contrary to nature to sweat blood. It does not support the heresy of weakness, but the sweat of blood establishes the reality of Christ’s body against the heresy which claims that it was only an apparent body. But rather, by the earth watered and sanctified by Christ’s blood, one may understand that it was declared—not to Christ, who knew it, but openly to us—that he already achieved the purpose of his prayer, namely that he should cleanse by his blood the faith of the disciples that earthly weakness still accused; and whatever stumbling block that weakness endured because of his death, he himself destroyed it all by dying. On the contrary, by his innocent death he restored to heavenly life the whole world that was dead far and wide from sins. (Bede, Commentary on the Gospel of Luke [trans. Calvin B. Kendall and Faith Wallis; Translated Texts for Historians 85; Liverpool: Liverpool University Press, 2025], 600)

 

 

To Support this Blog:

 

Patreon

Paypal

Venmo

Amazon Wishlist

Email for Amazon Gift card: ScripturalMormonism@gmail.com

Email for Logos.com Gift Card: IrishLDS87@gmail.com

Blog Archive