Saturday, August 29, 2026

Review of the Ryan from NeedGodnet vs. Jacob Hansen Debate on Salvation

 

Review of the  @NeedGodnet   vs.  @thoughtfulfaith2020   Debate on Salvation







"Encomium on Holy Mary the Theotokos"

The following comes from a a disputed work, sometimes attributed to Cyril of Alexandria (d. 444). The text is located in "Sermon 11," Migne, PG 77: 1029, 1032-33, 1035-36, is ):

 

Ἐγκώμιον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν Μαρίαν τὴν Θεοτόκον.

 

Φαιδρὸς ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος, καὶ χάριτος ἐμπεπλησμένος,

ἐπειδὴ καὶ λαμπρὰ ἡ τῶν ἁγίων Πατέρων σύνοδος.

 

Καὶ γὰρ σφόδρα μου ἐν λύπῃ ὑπάρχοντος διὰ τὴν παράνομον βλασφημίαν Νεστορίου διήπειρον τοῦτο τὸ πολύκλονον καὶ πολυειδὲς καὶ ἀγγελικὸν καὶ ἐπουράνιον θέατρον.

 

Οὗτοι οἱ τῆς εὐσεβείας διδάσκαλοι,

οἱ στύλοι καὶ ὄροφοι τῆς πίστεως,

οἱ πύργοι οἱ ἀσάλευτοι,

οἱ λιμένες οἱ γαμνοφόροι,

οἱ πιστοὶ καὶ φρόνιμοι οἰκονόμοι,

οἱ σοφοὶ ἀρχιτέκτονες,

οἱ τὸν αἰθέριον πλοῦν, καὶ ἰσάγγελον βίον ἐπὶ γῆς διάγοντες,

οἱ τῶν προφητῶν σύσκηνοι,

καὶ τῶν ἀποστόλων σύνθρονοι,

καὶ τῶν ἁγίων Ἐκκλησιῶν προστάται,

οἱ τῆς μιαρᾶς βλασφημίας ἔκδικοι,

οἱ τῆς ἡμετέρας πτωχείας, μᾶλλον δὲ εὐφημίας, σοφοὶ ἀντιλήπτορες,

οἱ τὸν καλλιεπῆ καὶ θεόμορφον τῆς ἀρχιερωσύνης θρόνον ἐπέχοντες,

οἱ τὰ μελίρρυτα πηγάζοντες νάματα,

οἱ τῆς Θεοῦ φρονήσεως πνευματικοὶ ῥήτορες,

οἱ τὴν τετραπέρατον οἰκουμένην τῇ ἀκαμάτῳ ὁδοιπορίᾳ βαδίσαντες,

 

οὓς οὔτε καύσων,

οὔτε πελάγη θαλάττης,

οὔτε κυμάτων μαινομένων θυμὸς ἄγριος,

οὐ ζαλώδεις τρισκυμίαι εἰς ὄκνον ἐνέβαλεν,

ἀλλὰ τοῖς πιστοφόροις βήμασι σκιρτῶντες ἐνταῦθα γεγόνασι,

πάντα ὄκνον καταλείψαντες διὰ πόθον,

μᾶλλον δὲ φόβον Κυρίου,

καὶ ἀναλαβόντες τὸν σταυρὸν ὡς σοφοὶ ἔκδικοι τῆς Θεοτόκου Μαρίας,

ἐνταῦθα παραγεγόνασιν.

 

Διὸ καὶ θαρροῦντες ταῖς εὐχαῖς αὐτῶν ταῖς ἁγίαις,

ὀλίγα τινὰ χαιρετίσωμεν ταύτην τὴν πόλιν,

καὶ οὕτως ἐπὶ τὰ ἐγκώμια τῆς Θεοτόκου ἐκτενῶ μου τὸν λόγον.

 

Χαίροις, ὦ Ἐφέσων πόλις, μᾶλλον δὲ θαλασσοθέα,

διότι ἀντὶ λιμένων ἐπιγείων λιμένες ἀγγελικοὶ καὶ ἐπουράνιοι πρὸς σὲ παραγεγόνασιν.

 

Χαίροις, τῆς Ἀσιανῆς διοικήσεως τὸ καύχημα,

ὅτι καθάπερ μαργαριτῶν τιμίων τοῖς τῶν ἁγίων ναοῖς κύκλῳ περιοικοδομῆσαι,

καὶ νῦν ὑπὸ πολλῶν ἁγίων Πατέρων καὶ πατριαρχῶν ἰχνοπατουμένη ἁγιάζῃ.

 

Εὐλογοῦνται γὰρ ἀληθῶς καὶ αἱ πύλαι, καὶ αἱ ῥύμαι, καὶ οἱ λιμένες,

τῇ τῶν ἁγίων Πατέρων ἐπιδημίᾳ.

 

Ὅπου γὰρ πολλοὶ ποιμένες ἐλαύνουσιν,

πολὺς γίνεται δι’ αὐτῶν ὁ τῆς ἁγιωσύνης σύλλογος·

καὶ μάλιστα οὗτοι οἱ φιλόθεοι καὶ φιλόπιστοι,

καὶ ἰσάγγελοι,

ἐξελαύνουσι πᾶσαν σατανικὴν ἐνέργειαν,

καὶ Ἑλληνικὴν εἰδωλομανίαν,

Πορφυριανῶν τε καὶ Σαβελλιτῶν,

Φρυγῶν τε καὶ Ἀπολιναριτῶν,

Φωτινῶν, καὶ ....... καὶ

πᾶσα ἁπλῶς αἵρεσις μιαρὰ καταισχύνεται,

δοξάζεται δὲ τὸ τῆς ὀρθοδόξου πίστεως καύχημα.

 

Χαίροις δὲ καὶ αὐτός, τρισμακάριε Ἰωάννη,

ἀπόστολε καὶ εὐαγγελιστά,

τῆς παρθενίας τὸ καύχημα,

τῆς ἁγνείας διδάσκαλε,

τῆς τῶν δαιμόνων πλάνης ἐξολοθρευτά,

τοῦ ναοῦ τῆς Ἀρτέμιδος καθαιρέτα,

τῆς Ἐφεσίων λιμὴν καὶ πρόμαχε,

τῶν πτωχῶν τροφεύς,

τῶν θλιβομένων καταφυγή,

τῶν ἐγγὺς καὶ τῶν μακρὰν ἀναψυχὴ καὶ ἀνάπαυσις.

 

Χαίροις, ἀμίαντον σκεῦος σωφροσύνης ἐμπεπλησμένον.

 

Σοὶ γὰρ καὶ ὁ Κύριος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ἐπὶ τοῦ σταυροῦ ἀναλαμβανόμενος τὴν Θεοτόκον καὶ Ἀειπαρθένον, ὡς παρθένῳ παρέδωκεν.

 

Χαίροις δὲ καὶ αὕτη, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

Παρθενομήτωρ, Φωτοφόρε, σκεῦος ἀμίαντον.

 

Χαίροις, Παρθένε Μαρία, μήτηρ καὶ δούλη,

Παρθένε μὲν, διὰ τὸν ἐκ σοῦ τῆς Παρθένου τεχθέντα·

μήτηρ δὲ διὰ τὸν ἐν ἀγκάλαις σαῖς βασταχθέντα,

καὶ γάλακτι σῷ τραφέντα·

δούλη διὰ τὸν μορφὴν δούλου λαβόντα.

 

Εἰσῆλθε γὰρ ὁ βασιλεὺς ἐν τῇ πόλει σου,

μᾶλλον δὲ ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ σου,

καὶ πάλιν ἐξῆλθεν ὡς αὐτὸς ἠθέλησεν,

καὶ ἡ πύλη σου ἐκέκλειστο.

 

Συνέλαβες γὰρ ἀσπόρως,

θεοπρεπῶς δὲ ἐγέννησας.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία, ὁ κατάλυτος ναός,

μᾶλλον δὲ ἅγιος,

καθὼς βοᾷ ὁ προφήτης Δαβὶδ λέγων·

«Ἅγιος ναός σου, θαυμαστὸς ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ.»

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία, τὸ κειμήλιον τῆς οἰκουμένης·

χαίροις, Μαρία, ἡ περιστερὰ ἡ ἀμίαντος·

Χαίροις, Μαρία, ἡ λαμπὰς ἡ ἄσβεστος.

Ἐκ σοῦ γὰρ ὁ Ἥλιος τῆς δικαιοσύνης γεγέννηται.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία,

τὸ χωρίον τοῦ ἀχωρήτου,

ἡ τὸν Μονογενῆ Θεὸν Λόγον χωρήσασα,

ἡ τὸν στάχυν ἄνευ ἀρότρου καὶ σπέρματος βλαστήσασα τὸν ἀμαράντινον.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν προφῆται κελαδοῦσιν,

δι’ ἣν ποιμένες δοξολογοῦσιν,

λέγοντες σὺν ἀγγέλοις τὸν φοβερὸν ἐκεῖνον ὕμνον·

«Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις Θεῷ, καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη, ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκία.»

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν ἄγγελοι χορεύουσιν,

ἀρχάγγελοι σκιρτῶσι φρικωδεστάτους ὕμνους ἀναπέμποντες.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν μάγοι προσκυνοῦσιν,

ὑπ’ ἀστέρος λαμπαδούχου ὁδηγούμενοι.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν τὸ δεκάτινον κάλλος τῶν ἀποστόλων ἐκλέλεκται.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν Ἰωάννης ἔτι ὢν ἐν τῇ κοιλίᾳ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτοῦ ἐσκίρτησεν,

καὶ προσεκύνησεν ὁ λύχνος τῷ φωτὶ τῷ ἀκοιμήτῳ.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς προῆλθεν ἡ χάρις ἡ ἀνεκλάλητος,

περὶ ἧς ὁ Ἀπόστολος βοῶν ἔλεγεν·

«Ἐπεφάνη ἡ χάρις τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡ σωτήριος πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις.»

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς προῆλθε τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινὸν ὁ Κύριος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦς Χριστός,

ὁ λέγων ἐν τοῖς Εὐαγγελίοις·

«Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου.»

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς ἐπέλαμψε φῶς τοῖς ἐν σκότει καὶ σκιᾷ θανάτου καθημένοις.

«Ὁ λαὸς γὰρ,» φησίν, «ὁ καθήμενος ἐν σκότει, ἴδε φῶς μέγα.»

Ποῖον ἄρα φῶς, εἰ μὴ τὸν Κύριον ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν,

τὸ φῶς τὸ ἀληθινόν,

τὸ φωτίζον πάντα ἄνθρωπον ἐρχόμενον εἰς τὸν κόσμον;

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἣν ἐν Εὐαγγελίοις κηρύσσεται·

«Εὐλογημένος ὁ ἐρχόμενος ἐν ὀνόματι Κυρίου»·

δι’ ἣν καὶ ἐν πόλεσιν καὶ ἐν κώμαις καὶ ἐν νήσοις Ἐκκλησίαι ὀρθοδόξων τεθεμελίωνται.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς προῆλθεν ὁ τοῦ θανάτου νικητής,

καὶ τοῦ ᾅδου ὀλοθρευτής.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς προῆλθεν ὁ τοῦ πρωτοπλάστου πλάστης,

καὶ τῆς παραβάσεως αὐτοῦ διορθωτής,

καὶ τῆς ἐν οὐρανῷ βασιλείας ὁδηγός.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς ἤνθησε καὶ ἐξέλαμψε τὸ τῆς ἀναστάσεως κάλλος.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς βάπτισμα ἁγιοσύνης φρικτόν τε καὶ Ἰορδανικὸν ἔρρευσεν.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς ὁ Ἰωάννης καὶ Ἰορδάνης ἁγιάζονται,

καὶ διάβολος ἀτιμάζεται.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε,

δι’ ἧς πᾶσα πνοὴ πιστεύουσα σώζεται.

 

Χαίροις, Μαρία Θεοτόκε·

διὰ σοῦ γὰρ καὶ τὰ θαλάττια κύματα γαληνιῶντα καὶ ἡσυχάζοντα,

τοὺς συνδούλους ἡμῶν καὶ συλλειτουργοὺς μετὰ χαρᾶς καὶ ἡμερότητος ἐβάστασαν.

 

Καὶ γὰρ ἡ γῆ ποτε ὑπὸ λῃστῶν πατουμένη,

τῇ τῶν ἁγίων Πατέρων ἐπιδημίᾳ εἰς εἰρήνην μεταβέβληται.

 

Γέγραπται γάρ·

«Ὡς ὡραῖοι οἱ πόδες τῶν εὐαγγελιζομένων εἰρήνην!»

 

Ποίαν εἰρήνην;

Τὸν Κύριον ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν τὸν κήρυκα τῆς εἰρήνης,

τὸν λέγοντα ἐν τοῖς ἁγίοις Εὐαγγελίοις·

«Εἰρήνην τὴν ἐμὴν δίδωμι ὑμῖν.»

 

Ποίαν εἰρήνην;

ἣν βλασφημήσας Νεστόριος οὐ παρεδέξατο λέγων,

ὅτι «Οὐκ ἐτέχθη,» φησίν, «ὁ Κύριος ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ὁ τοῦ Θεοῦ Υἱὸς Λόγος ἐκ τῆς Παρθένου Μαρίας»,

μήτε ἄτρωτον τὸν τῆς παρθενίας τόκον ἐπιστάμενος,

μήτε τῇ ἀρχαγγελικῇ φωνῇ πιστεύων τῇ λεγούσῃ·

«Χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ.»

 

Περσικῇ γὰρ βασιλείᾳ ἐξομοιούμενος,

καὶ τὸν μονογενῆ Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ ἀθετεῖν πειρώμενος,

ἐπὶ ἀπωλείᾳ πολλῶν καὶ βλασφημίᾳ ψυχῶν ταῦτα ἐμυθολόγησεν.

 

 

Encomium on Holy Mary the Theotokos

 

Bright for us is the discourse, and filled with grace, since splendid indeed is the council of the holy Fathers.

 

For, although I was exceedingly sorrowful because of the unlawful blasphemy of Nestorius, this many-circled, manifold, angelic, and heavenly spectacle [i.e. the Council] has appeared.

 

These are the teachers of piety,
the pillars and roofs of the faith,
the immovable towers,
the harbours that bring calm,
the faithful and prudent stewards,
the wise architects,
those who make the heavenly voyage and lead an angel-like life upon earth,
the fellow-dwellers of the prophets,
the sharers of the throne of the apostles,
the protectors of the holy Churches,
the avengers of the foul blasphemy,
the wise helpers of our poverty—or rather, of our praise—
those who occupy the eloquent and God-fashioned throne of the high priesthood,
those who pour forth streams flowing with sweetness,
the spiritual orators of the wisdom of God,
those who have traversed the four-cornered world by their tireless journeying,

 

whom neither scorching heat,
nor the seas,
nor the wild fury of raging waves,
nor dizzying tempests cast into fear,
but who, bounding along with faith-bearing steps, have arrived here,
leaving aside all hesitation out of longing—
or rather, fear of the Lord—
and taking up the cross as wise defenders of the Theotokos Mary,
have come here.

Therefore, trusting in their holy prayers, let us greet this city with a few words, and thus I shall extend my discourse to the praises of the Theotokos.

 

Rejoice, O city of the Ephesians, rather, O city that looks upon the sea,
because instead of earthly harbours, angelic and heavenly harbours have come to you.

 

Rejoice, boast of the Asian province,
because, like precious pearls, you have been built around the holy churches, and now you are being sanctified, trodden by the footsteps of many holy Fathers and patriarchs.

For truly the gates, the streets, and the harbours are blessed by the arrival of the holy Fathers.

 

For wherever many shepherds drive forth, there comes through them a great company of holiness. And especially these men, lovers of God, lovers of the faith, and angel-like, drive out every satanic activity and Greek idolatry—[that] of the Porphyrians and Sabellians, the Phrygians and Apollinarians, the Photinians, and …—and every foul heresy is utterly put to shame, while the boast of the orthodox faith is glorified.

 

Rejoice also, thrice-blessed John, apostle and evangelist, boast of virginity, teacher of purity, destroyer of the deception of demons, demolisher of the temple of Artemis, harbour and champion of the Ephesians, nourisher of the poor, refuge of the afflicted, refreshment and rest of those near and far.

Rejoice, undefiled vessel filled with temperance.

 

For to you also our Lord Jesus Christ, as He was being raised upon the cross, entrusted the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin as a virgin.

And rejoice also, O Mary Theotokos, Mother of the Virgin, Light-bearer, undefiled vessel.

 

Rejoice, Virgin Mary, mother and servant:
virgin, because of the one born from you, the Virgin;
mother, because of the one carried in your arms and nourished with your milk;
servant, because of the one who took the form of a servant.

 

For the King entered your city—or rather, your womb—and again came forth as He Himself willed, while your gate remained closed.

 

For you conceived without seed, and in a manner worthy of God you gave birth.

 

Rejoice, Mary, the indestructible temple, or rather, the holy one, as the prophet David cries, saying:
“Holy is your temple, wondrous in righteousness.”

 

Rejoice, Mary, treasure of the inhabited world;
rejoice, Mary, the undefiled dove;
rejoice, Mary, the unquenchable lamp.
For from you the Sun of righteousness has been born.

 

Rejoice, Mary, the place of Him whom nothing can contain,
you who contained the Only-Begotten God the Word,
you who caused the immortal grain to sprout without plough or seed.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the prophets sing,
through whom the shepherds glorify God,
saying with the angels that dreadful hymn:

 

“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill among men.”

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the angels dance,
and the archangels leap for joy, sending forth most awe-inspiring hymns.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the Magi worship,
guided by a star bearing a light.

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the beauty of the apostles has been chosen.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom John, while still in his mother’s womb, leaped for joy,
and the lamp worshipped the unsetting Light.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the ineffable grace came forth,
concerning which the Apostle cried out, saying:

 

“The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.”

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the true Light came forth, our Lord Jesus Christ,
who says in the Gospels:

“I am the light of the world.”

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom light shone upon those sitting in darkness and in the shadow of death.

 

“For the people,” he says, “who sat in darkness, have seen a great light.”

 

What light, then, is it, if not our Lord Jesus Christ,
the true Light,
who enlightens every person coming into the world?

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom it is proclaimed in the Gospels:

 

“Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”;

 

through whom also in cities, villages, and islands churches of the Orthodox have been established.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the conqueror of death came forth,
and the destroyer of Hades.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom came forth the Creator of the first-formed man,
the corrector of his transgression,
and the guide to the kingdom in heaven.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the beauty of the resurrection blossomed and shone forth.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom the baptism of holiness, fearful and Jordanic, flowed forth.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom John and the Jordan are sanctified,
and the devil is dishonoured.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos,
through whom every believing breath is saved.

 

Rejoice, Mary Theotokos:
for through you also the waves of the sea, becoming calm and quiet, bore our fellow-servants and fellow-ministers with joy and gentleness.

 

For the earth, once trampled by robbers, has been transformed into peace by the arrival of the holy Fathers.

 

For it is written:

 

“How beautiful are the feet of those who proclaim peace!”

 

What peace?

 

Our Lord Jesus Christ, the herald of peace,
who says in the holy Gospels:

 

“My peace I give you.”

 

What peace?

 

The peace which Nestorius, by his blasphemy, did not accept, saying:

 

“Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Word, the Son of God, was not born from the Virgin Mary,”

 

not knowing the birth from virginity to be untouched,
nor believing the voice of the archangel which says:

 

“Hail, highly favoured one; the Lord is with you.”

 

For, comparing himself to the Persian monarchy, and attempting to deny the Only-Begotten Son of God, he fabricated these things to the destruction of many and the blasphemy of souls.

 

John Tvedtnes on Alma 19:29-30 and 22:18-22

  

Twice in the Book of Mormon, when individuals fell as if dead under the influence of the Spirit of the Lord, someone raised them by grasping their hand. This happened to Lamoni and his wife (Alma 19:29-30) and later to Lamoni’s father (Alma 22:18-22), each of whom came to know the Lord during the experience. While there are no exact parallels in the Bible, in Revelation 1:17 the apostle John falls down as dead before the risen Christ, who then lays his right hand upon him and tells him not to fear. Closer parallels to the Book of Mormon stories are found in various pseudepigraphic texts unavailable to Joseph Smith.

 

. . .

 

In light of these and other accounts, the Book of Mormon stories of people falling into ecstasy and being raised by a handclasp fits quite well into the ancient world from which the Nephite record came. (John A. Tvedtnes, “Raised By a Handclasp,” in The Most Correct Book: Insights from a Book of Mormon Scholar [Salt Lake City: Cornerstone Publishing, 1999], 215, 218)

 

Tvedtnes (Ibid., 215-16) references, and quotes, in parts, the following texts. I am providing fuller quotations for those who may not have access to such works:

 

Apocalypse of Abraham (A) 10:1-5:

 

And it came to pass when I heard the voice pronouncing such words to me that I looked this way and that. And behold there was no breath of man. And my spirit was amazed, and my soul fled from me. And I became like a stone, and fell face down upon the earth, for there was no longer strength in me to stand up on the earth. And while I was still face down on the ground, I heard the voice speaking, “Go, laoel of the same name, through the mediation of my ineffable name, consecrate this man for me and strengthen him against his trembling.” The angel he sent to me in the likeness of a man came, and he took me by my right hand and stood me on my feet. And he said to me, “Stand up, Abraham, friend of God who has loved you, let human trembling not enfold you!

 

Apocalypse of Abraham (A) 11:1:

 

And I stood up and saw him who had taken my right hand and set me on my feet.

 

 

1 Enoch 14:14-25:

 

14 And as I shook is and trembled, I fell upon my face and saw a vision. 15 And behold there was an opening before me (and) a second house which is greater than the former and everything was built with tongues of fire. 16 And in every respect it excelled (the other)—in glory and great honor—to the extent that it is impossible for me to recount to you concerning its glory and greatness. 17 As for its floor, it was of fire and above it was lightning and the path of the stars; and as for the ceiling, it was flaming fire. 18 And I observed and saw inside it a lofty throne—its appearance was like crystal and its wheels like the shining sun; and (I heard?) the voice of the cherubim; 19 and from beneath the throne were issuing streams of flaming fire. It was difficult to look at it.  20 And the Great Glory was sitting upon it—as for his gown, which was shining more brightly than the sun, it was whiter than any snow. 21 None of the angels was able to come in and see the face of the Excellent and the Glorious One; and no one of the flesh can see him—22 the flaming fire was round about him, and a great fire stood before him. No one could come near unto him from among those that surrounded the tens of millions (that stood) before him. 23 He needed no council, but the most holy ones who are near to him neither go far away at night nor move away from him. 24 Until then I was prostrate on my face covered and trembling. And the Lord called me with his own mouth and said to me, “Come near to me, Enoch, and to my holy Word.” 25 And he lifted me up and brought me near to the gate, but I (continued) to look down with my face.

 

1 Enoch 15:1:

 

But he raised me up and said to me with his voice, “Enoch.” I (then) heard, “Do not fear, Enoch, righteous man, scribe of righteousness; come near to me and hear my voice.

 

1 Enoch 71:1-3:

 

(Thus) it happened after this that my spirit passed out of sight and ascended into the heavens. And I saw the sons of the holy angels walking upon the flame of fire; their garments were white—and their overcoats—and the light of their faces was like snow. Also I saw two rivers of fire, the light of which fire was shining like hyacinth. Then I fell upon my face before the Lord of the Spirits. And the angel Michael, one of the archangels, seizing me by my right hand and lifting me up, led me out into all the secrets of mercy; and he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.

 

Eusebius, Preparation for the Gospel 9.27:

 

‘So Moses passed out and came to the palace; and finding the doors opened he went in, and the guards here also being sunk in sleep he woke up the king. And he being dismayed at what had happened bade Moses tell him the name of the God who sent him, scoffing at him: but Moses bent down and whispered in his ear, and when the king heard it he fell speechless, but was held fast by Moses and came to life again.

 

Friday, August 28, 2026

John Kartchner Recounting a miracle story from c. 1877

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The Book of Mormon is the most wonderful book I ever read. The things it tells and where it was found by Joseph Smith just is marvelous, and the Doctrine and Covenants is marvelous, as also the Voice of Warning. We lived by thousands of neighbors, peaceable and with love and agreeable. My wish for gifts of faith in in God was to heal the sick. One day I was called in to administer to the sick. While there, a lady called in with her head all bundled up, crying with pain. When she saw us preparing to administer, she started to go, and I said, “Sit down here and you will be healed,” and anointed her with oil and laid our hands on her. The pain left and she started to bundle up her head again and I said, “Don’t bundle up again. You’re healed,” and she was. (John Kartchner history and family histories, circa 1945, p. 8)

 

John S. Fullmer's January 20, 1878 Reminisence of Joseph Smith Predicting the Saints Moving to the Rocky Mountains (June 22, 1844)

On January 20, 1878, John S. Fullmer recorded the following reminiscence from June 22, 1844, of Joseph Smith predicting a then-future movement of the Saints to the Rocky Mountains:

 

On this day our General called us out in order, and to my astonishment counseled us to give up our arms; that had been supplied for our defence by the authorities of the State of Ills., Saying we will give unto them that ask of us, and trust in God! for our future welfare.

 

I wish to render you my thanks as soldiers and citizens, under my command. I proclaim as your General, you have done faithfully your duty in guarding this City, and in preserving the lives of all the people, as well [as?] mine in a special manner for <I> have seen you on duty without shoes and comfortable clothing. And if I had the means to buy, or I could obtain these necessary things for you, I would gladly do so <it>. But I cannot mortage anny of my property to get one dollar; but I will say this, You will be called the first Elders of the church, and your missions will be to the nations of the Earth.— You will gather many people into the fastness of the Rockey Mountains Mountains as a center for the gathering of the people. And you be faithful because you have been true. And many of those that come in under your ministry because of their much learning, they will seek for high positions, and they will be set up and raise themselves in eminence above you, but you will walk in low places unnoticed, and you will know all that transpires in their midst. And those who are your friends will be my friends. This I will promise to you. that when I come again to lead you forth. For I go to prepare a place for you, so that where I am, you shall be with me.

 

With these comforting sayings, he thanked us for past duties done.

 

You are now dismissed to take care of your wives, children and homes.

 

Further Reading:

 

Resources on Joseph Smith’s Prophecies

Gregory the Great (d. 604) Applying Isaiah 2:2 to Mary

  

5. Potest autem hujus montis nomine, beatissima semper virgo Maria Dei Genitrix designari : mons quippe fuit, quæ omnem electæ creaturæ altitudinem electionis suæ dignitate transcendit. An non mons sublimis Maria, quæ ut ad conceptionem æterni Verbi pertingeret, meritorum verticem supra omnes angelorum choros, usque ad solium deitatis erexit? Hujus enim montis præcellentissimam dignitatem Isaias vaticinans, ait : Erit in novissimis diebus præparatus mons domus Domini in vertice montium (Isa. II, 2). Mons quippe in vertice montium fuit, quia altitudo Mariæ supra omnes sanctos refulsit. Nam sicut mons altitudinem, ita domus designat habitationem. Mons quippe et domus apte dicitur, quæ dum incomparabilibus est illustrata meritis, Dei unigenito, in quo recumberet, sacrum præparavit uterum. Nam mons in vertice montium Maria non fieret, si supra angelorum altitudinem, hanc divina fecunditas non levaret. Et domus Domini non fieret, si in ejus ventre, per assumptam humanitatem, verbi divinitas non jaceret. Sed recte mons frugifer dicitur, de qua optimus fructus, id est novus homo generalur, quam certe in fecunditatis suæ gloria pulchram, ornatamque propheta respiciens, ait : Egredietur virga de radice Jesse, et flos de radice ejus ascendet (Isa. XI, 1). De hujus namque montis fructu, David Deo exsultans, ait : Confluentur tibi populi Deus, confluentur tibi populi omnes, terra dedit fructum suum (Ps. LXVI, 6). Terra quippe fructum suum dedit, quia quem Virgo peperit, non concepit materiali opere, sed sancti Spiritus obumbratione (Luc. I, 35). Ilinc eidem regi et prophetæ a Domino dicitur : De fructu ventris tui ponam super sedem tuam (Psal. CXXXI, 11). Hinc Isaias ait : Erit fructus terræ sublimis (Isa. IV, 2). Nam quem Virgo genuit, non solum homo sanctus fuit, sed etiam potens Deus. De hoc fructu ad eandem beatam Virginem, Elisabeth salutante, dicitur : Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui (Luc. I, 42). Recte igitur mons Ephraim dicitur, quæ dum ineffabili dignitate divinæ generationis attollitur, in ejus fructu, arida humanæ conditionis germina revirescunt. Vir igitur de Ramatha Sophim factus est de monte Ephraim : quia qui per divinitatis suæ potentiam angelos condidit, de carne præcisæ Virginis, formam suscepit humanitatis. Et quia per humanitatem, quam assumpsit, non ex infidelibus, sed ex fidelibus nasci voluit, sequitur : Filius Hieroboam, filii Heliu, filii Thau, filii Suph. (Gregory the Great, In Librum Primum Regum, 1.5 [Migne, PL 79:25-26])

 

 

5. Moreover, by the name of this mountain, the most blessed ever-virgin Mary, Mother of God, may be designated: for she was a mountain who surpassed the height of every created creature by the dignity of her election. Indeed, is not Mary a lofty mountain, who, in order to attain to the conception of the eternal Word, raised the summit of her merits above all the choirs of the angels, even to the throne of divinity?

 

For the prophet Isaiah, foretelling the most excellent dignity of this mountain, says: “In the last days the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the summit of the mountains” (Isa. 2:2). Indeed, she was a mountain on the summit of the mountains, because the loftiness of Mary shone forth above all the saints. For just as a mountain signifies height, so a house designates habitation.

 

She is aptly called both mountain and house: for, being adorned with incomparable merits, she prepared a sacred womb for the only-begotten Son of God, in which he might recline. For Mary would not have become a mountain on the summit of the mountains, had divine fecundity not raised her above the height of the angels. Nor would she have become the house of the Lord, if the divinity of the Word had not lain in her womb through the humanity he assumed.

 

But she is rightly called a fruitful mountain, because from her the best fruit, that is, the new man, is generated. And the prophet, contemplating her as beautiful and adorned in the glory of her fruitfulness, says: “A rod shall go forth from the root of Jesse, and a flower shall ascend from his root” (Isa. 11:1).

 

Of the fruit of this mountain, David, exulting in God, says: “The peoples shall be gathered to you, O God; all the peoples shall be gathered to you; the earth has given its fruit” (Ps. 66:6). Indeed, the earth gave its fruit, because the Virgin bore him whom she conceived, not by material agency, but through the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35).

 

There the Lord likewise says to the same king and prophet: “Of the fruit of your womb I will set upon your throne” (Ps. 131:11). Hence Isaiah says: “The fruit of the earth shall be exalted” (Isa. 4:2). For he whom the Virgin begot was not only a holy man, but also Almighty God.

Concerning this fruit, to the same blessed Virgin, when Elizabeth greeted her, it is said: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb” (Luke 1:42).

 

Therefore she is rightly called Mount Ephraim: for, while she is exalted by the ineffable dignity of divine generation, in her fruit the withered shoots of human nature spring to life again.

 

Thus the man of Ramathaim-Zophim was made from Mount Ephraim: for he who, by the power of his divinity, created the angels, from the flesh of the Virgin, taken from her, assumed the form of humanity.

 

And because in the humanity which he assumed he willed to be born not from the unbelieving but from the faithful, it follows: “The son of Hieroboam, son of Heliu, son of Thau, son of Suph.”

 

Roger L. Omanson and John E. Ellington on 2 Chronicles 11:23

  

And procured wives for them: The mt says “and asked for many wives” (wayyishe’al hamon nashim in Hebrew). All of the ancient versions except the Syriac agree with the mt here. The Syriac seems to understand the text to mean that Rehoboam wanted many wives for himself. ctat gives an {A} rating to the mt, but states that the mt probably contains an error. Unfortunately, any attempt to correct the mt is only a guess at what the text originally read. Some interpreters think that the Hebrew words translated “and asked for many wives” originally read “and took for them wives” (wayyissa’ lahem nashim; so rsv, reb, bp). According to this interpretation, the reading in the mt is the result of a scribe’s having divided the Hebrew words wayyissa’ lahem incorrectly and then mistakenly copying the letter for “n” twice.

 

The mt may mean that Rehoboam took many wives for himself, in which case this statement is simply a summary of verse 21. But without correcting the mt, it is more likely that the intended sense is either that he got one wife for each son or that he got several wives for each son. rsv and gnt are ambiguous, as is the Hebrew, but most likely the intended meaning is that each son had several wives. Compare nlt (1996), which says “and arranged for each of them to have several wives.” (Roger L. Omanson and John E. Ellington, A Handbook on 1-2 Chronicles, 2 vols. [United Bible Societies’ Handbooks; Miami: United Bible Societies, 2014], 2:927-28)

 

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