In their recent video, If We Only Knew, We Would Have Never Joined Mormonism Episode 4: Living Prophets?, Dave and Janet Bartosiewicz attempt to critique the LDS concept of modern prophets and apostles:
Their arguments are informed, in part, on an a priori assumption of sola scriptura (something Bartosiewicz refuses to defend) and eisegesis. See my response to "God Loves Mormons" on this very same topic:
There is one topic I wish to discuss is a comment made at the very beginning of this video which demonstrates the lack of intellectual integrity one has come to expect from Dave and Janet. Janet shows she is just as deceptive as her husband by stating that Latter-day Saints believe that "when the prophet says it, that settles it!" (0:47 mark). The truth of the matter, however, is completely different. As I wrote in response to a similar argument in Latter-day Saints and the Bible in response to another Evangelical, Mike Thomas:
In an attempt to support the straw-man that “when LDS Church leaders speak, the thinking has been done for Latter-day Saints,” Mike Thomas writes:
For Mormons it is a great deal more difficult yet straight forward in a strange sort of way. The first question a Mormon asks is not, ‘Which Bible translations are reliable?’ but,’What does the church have to say?’ And this is not a simple seeking after counsel, ‘Pastor, which translation would you recommend?’ We all do that from time to time. What is important to a Mormon is, ‘what is the ‘official’ stance of the church?’ It is this that is ‘right’ in the eyes of your typical LDS believer.
This speaks volumes about the degree of trust Mormons put in their leaders. Its fallen out of fashion now, as has so much old fashioned Mormonism, but it used to be proudly said:
“When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan — it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the Kingdom of God.”(Improvement Era, June 1945)
The (unofficial) Mormon apologetics site FAIR has attempted to refute the idea that this is ‘official’ Mormon thinking, even dragging out from Mormon archives a letter from the Mormon leader George Albert Smith appearing to say as much. You can read it here. But it doesn’t wash because anyone who has dealt with Mormonism, more, anyone who has been a Mormon will tell you this is the attitude of the average True Believing Latter-day Saint to this day.
As one who “has been a Mormon” and is a “true believing Latter-day Saint,” let me say that the above is simply false.
Those who read the email exchanges (linked above) Thomas had with Mike Parker et al., will see that intellectual integrity and honesty are things he clearly lacks and this is more proof thereof. The statement from the Improvement Era was refuted by none other than George Albert Smith, as noted by Mike, and he even links to an article hosted by FairMormon (PKA "FAIR") that reproduces the letter from George Albert Smith refuting such. However, this alone refutes his straw-man presentation—George Albert Smith was president (not just a leader) of the Church when he wrote this letter in response to this errant article (his presidency running from May 1945 to April 1951). If Mike Thomas is correct, and LDS jettison Pres. George Albert Smith’s comments, then this ipso facto refutes his claim that LDS blindly follow their leaders as it would represent just the opposite! In reality, however, it has always been the case that LDS leaders have urged Church members not to accept their words at face-value and/or have openly admitted to their own fallibility. Consider the following representative examples:
Were the former and Latter-day Saints, with their Apostles, Prophets Seers, and Revelators collected together to discuss this matter [the nature of Deity], I am led to think there would be found a great variety in their views and feelings upon this subject, without direct revelation from the Lord. It is as much my right to differ from other men, as it is theirs to differ from me, in points of doctrine and principle, when our minds cannot at once arrive at the same conclusion. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:123)
I do not believe that there is a single revelation, among the many God has given to the Church; that is perfect in its fulness. The revelations of God contain correct doctrine and principle, as far as they go, but it is impossible for the poor, weak, low, grovelling, sinful inhabitants of the earth to receive a revelation from the Almighty in all its perfections. He has to speak to us in a manner to meet the extent of our capacities. (Brigham Young; Journal of Discourses, 2:314).
I do not wish any Latter-day Saint in this world, nor in heaven, to be satisfied with anything I do, unless the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, the spirit of revelation, makes them satisfied . . . Suppose that the people were heedless, that they manifested no concern with regard to the things of the kingdom of God, but threw the whole burden upon the leaders fo the people, saying, 'if the brethren who take charge of matters are satisfied, we are,' that is not pleasing in the sight of the Lord. (Brigham Young; JOD 3:45)
As you have been told hundreds of times, how easy it would be for your leaders to lead you to destruction unless you actually know the mind and will of the Spirit yourselves. (Brigham Young; JOD 4:368)
February 8, 1843, Joseph Smith wrote, "[I] visited with a brother and sister from Michigan who thought that 'a prophet is always a prophet;' but I told them that a prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such" (History of the Church 5.265).
Joseph Smith occasionally used wording such as "this is my counsel" (History of the Church 1.455) or "I therefore warn" (Nauvoo Neighbor, June 19, 1844)
“We have heard men that hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything that they were told to do by those who preside over them (even) if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent human beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions. When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience, as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong.themselves.”
—[unsigned editorial [perhaps Samuel W. Richards]., Millennial Star, Vol. 14, Num.38, pp.594
Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a Bishop, an apostle or a president; if you do, they will fail you at some time or place; they will do wrong or seem to, and your support will be gone; but if we lean on God, He will NEVER fail us. When men and women depend upon GOD ALONE and trust in HIM ALONE, their faith will not be shaken if the highest in the Church should step aside." (George Q. Canon, Deseret Weekly News 43:322 [March 7, 1891])
“We have heard men that hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything that they were told to do by those who preside over them (even) if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent human beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions. When the Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience, as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong.themselves.”
—[unsigned editorial [perhaps Samuel W. Richards]., Millennial Star, Vol. 14, Num.38, pp.594
Do not, brethren, put your trust in man though he be a Bishop, an apostle or a president; if you do, they will fail you at some time or place; they will do wrong or seem to, and your support will be gone; but if we lean on God, He will NEVER fail us. When men and women depend upon GOD ALONE and trust in HIM ALONE, their faith will not be shaken if the highest in the Church should step aside." (George Q. Canon, Deseret Weekly News 43:322 [March 7, 1891])
President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote, "It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man's doctrine. You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the Church as standards in doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works." (Doctrines of Salvation 3:203)
President Harold B. Lee declared, "If anyone, regardless of his position in the Church were to advance a doctrine that is not substantiated by the standard Church works, meaning the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you may know that his statement is merely his private opinion. The only one authorized to bring forth any new doctrine is the President of the Church, who, when he does, will declare it as revelation from God, and it will be so accepted by the Council of the Twelve and sustained by the body of the Church. And if any man speak a doctrine which contradicts what is in the standard Church works, you may know by that same token that it is false and you are not bound to accept it as truth" (The First Area General Conference for Germany, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and Spain of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in Munich Germany, August 24-26, 1973, with Reports and Discourses, 69).
The Latter-day Saints do not do things because they happen to be printed in a book. They do not do things because God told the Jews to do them; nor do they do or leave undone anything because of the instructions that Christ gave to the Nephites. Whatever is done by this Church is because God, speaking from heaven in our day, has commanded this Church to do it. No book presides over this Church, and no book lies at its foundation. You cannot pile up books enough to take the place of God's priesthood, inspired by the power of the Holy Ghost. That is the constitution of the Church of Christ. … Divine revelation adapts itself to the circumstances and conditions of men, and change upon change ensues as God's progressive work goes on to its destiny. There is no book big enough or good enough to preside over this Church. (Elder Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, October 1916, p. 55. Quoted by Loren C. Dunn, in General Conference, Ensign May 1976, p.65-66)
"We who have been called to lead the Church are ordinary men and women with ordinary capacities.” (Boyd K. Packer, "Revelation in a Changing World," Ensign [November 1989]: 16.
"We make no claim of infallibility or perfection in the prophets, seers, and revelators." (James E. Faust, "Continuous Revelation," Ensign [November 1989]: 11)
"I am not a perfect man, and infallibility does not come with the call [of Apostlehood]." (Robert D Hales, Ensign, May [1994]:78)
"the President is not infallible. He makes no claims to infallibility. But when in his official capacity he teaches and advises the members of the Church relative to their duties, let no man who wants to please the Lord say aught against the counsels of the President." (Alma P. Burton, Ensign, Ensign, [October 1972]:6)
Though general authorities are authorities in the sense of having power to administer Church affairs, they may or may not be authorities in the sense of doctrinal knowledge, the intricacies of church procedures, or the receipt of the promptings of the Spirit. A call to an administrative position itself adds little knowledge or power of discernment to an individual. (Elder McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, s.v. "General Authority")
With all their inspiration and greatness, prophets are yet mortal men with imperfections common to mankind in general. They have their opinions and prejudices and are left to work out their problems without inspiration in many instances. (Elder McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, s.v. "Prophets")
In addition, I would urge one to read the article on George Smith's response (which includes the reproduction of his letter) in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 19:1 (Spring 1986), pp. 35-39 (.pdf of entire issue).
