Friday, March 28, 2025

Ambrose's Comments in On the Institution of Virgins being "unfavorable to Mary's coredemptive role"

In his On the Institution of Virgins, Ambrose of Milan wrote :

 

Stabat ante crucem mater, et fugientibus viris, stabat intrepida. Videte utrum pudorem mutare potuerit mater Jesu, quae animum non muta vit. Spectabat piis oculis filii vulnera, per quem sciebat omnibus futu- ram redemptionem. Stabat non degeneri mater spectaculo, quae non metuebat peremptorem. Pendebat in cruce filius, mater se persecu- toribus offerebat. Si hoc solum esset ut ante filium prosterneretur, laudandus pietatis affectus, quod superstes filio esse nolebat : sin vero ut cum filio moreretur, cum eodem gestiebat resurgere, non ignara mysterii quod genuisset resurrecturum : simul quae publico usui im- pendi mortem filii noverat, praestolabatur si forte etiam sua morte publico muneri aliquid adderetur. Sed Christi passio adjutorio non eguit, sicut ipse Dominus longe ante praedixit : « Et respexi, et non erat au- xiliator : et attendi et nemo suscipiebat : et liberabo eos brachio meo. » Quomodo ergo extorqueri potuit integritas Mariae, quae fugientibus apostolis, supplicia non metuebat, sed ipsa se offerebat periculis ? (Ambrose, De Inst. Virg. 7 :49f. PL 16 :318c-319a)

 

English translation :

 

The mother stood before the cross, and while the men fled, she stood fearless. See whether the mother of Jesus, who did not change her resolve, could have changed her modesty. With devout eyes, she gazed upon the wounds of her Son, through whom she knew redemption would come for all.

 

The mother did not shrink from such a dreadful spectacle; she did not fear the executioner. Her Son hung on the cross, and she offered herself to His persecutors. If it were only so that she might fall prostrate before her Son, her devotion would be praiseworthy, since she did not wish to outlive Him. But if it were so that she might die with Him, she longed to rise with Him as well, fully aware of the mystery that He, whom she had borne, would rise again.

 

At the same time, knowing that the death of her Son was for the benefit of all, she awaited to see whether perhaps even her own death might contribute something to that public sacrifice. However, Christ’s Passion needed no assistance, as the Lord Himself had long before foretold: "I looked, and there was no one to help; I observed, and no one sustained me; therefore, I will save them with my own arm."

 

How, then, could Mary's integrity be shaken? While the apostles fled, she did not fear suffering but instead offered herself to danger.

 

In spite of Ambrose’s very high Mariology, as one commentator noted:

 

The passage above is unfavorable to Mary’s coredemptive role . . . (Charles William Neumann, The Virgin Mary in the Works of Saint Ambrose [Contributions in the History of Early Christian Literature and Theology 17; Fribourg: The University Press, 1962], 265)

 

 

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Samuel Zinner (non-LDS) on 2 Peter 1:19 and "the Prophetic Word"

  

Deserving comment is Philo Mos. 2.14’s description of Moses’ laws (νόμῳ), as “firm,” βέβαια, as is 2.15’s “not even the smallest part, τὸ μικρότατον, of the ordinances—has been disturbed, ἐκινήθη,” and 2.16’s remark that nothing can “undo,” ἔλυσε, the Torah. Working in reverse order, Mos. 2.16’s ἔλυσε overlaps etymologically with Matt 5:17’s καταλῦσαι, usually rendered “abolish,” “destroy.” Mos. 2.15’s τὸ μικρότατον brings to mind not only Matthew 5:18’s “not an iota, not a dot,” but also 5:19’s “least,” ἐλάχιστος. Perhaps we could also compare Matthew 5:19’s μέγας with Mos. 2.17’s μέγα: “Yet, though it may be rightly thought a great (μέγα) matter in itself that the laws should have been guarded securely through all time, we have not reached the true marvel.”

 

This leaves us with Mos. 2.14’s “firm,” βέβαια, Mosaic laws. The same term occurs in 2 Peter 1:19, followed in the previously mentioned v. 20 by a reference to ἐπιλύσεως, a unique word for “interpretation” in the NT: “And we have the prophetic word (τὸν προφητικὸν λόγον) made more sure (βεβαιότερον). You will do well to pay attention to this as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation (ἐπιλύσεως).” Now, it just so happens that “the prophetic word” is a Philonic title for Moses the Lawgiver. In Leg. 3:43 Philo calls Moses ὁ προφητικὸς λόγος, “the prophetic word”; in Congr. 170 Moses is ὁ προφήτης λόγος, “the prophet-word”; in Migr. 151 Philo writes of Moses’ title τοῦ προφήτου λόγου, “the word of prophecy.”

 

That 2 Peter 1:19’s “prophetic word” may actually reflect Philo’s Moses title is indicated first by the same verse’s βεβαιότερον, which agrees with Philo’s description of Moses’ Torah as βέβαια in Mos. 2.14. Second, Migr. 151’s reference to Moses as τοῦ προφήτου λόγου is preceded in Migr. 150 by the following: “For at present he is but a novice in the contemplation and study of things Divine and his principles are unformed (παλαδᾷ, Yonge, ‘solidity’) and wavering (σαλεύει). By and by they will have gained consistency (παγέντα, lit., ‘solidity’) and rest (ἱδρυθῇ, Yonge, ‘are established’) on a firmer foundation (κραταιότερον).” Both 2 Peter 1:19’s βεβαιότερον and Philo’s κραταιότερον are comparative forms.

 

Third, a reference to Moses as “the prophetic word” in 2 Peter 1:19 would be congruent with the context, which alludes to the story of Jesus’ transfiguration, which involved an appearance by Moses. Fourth, a Mosaic hint may also be present in 2 Peter 1:18’s “the holy mountain”: “we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain,” ἐν τῷ ἁγίῳ ὄρει. In Leg. 3.142 Philo calls Mount Sinai, the site of the matan torah, “the holy mountain” (Loeb), or “the divine mountain,” ἐν τῷ θείῳ ὄρει. Fifth, and more remotely, 2 Peter 1:5–6’s list of virtues begins with faith and virtue, ἀρετή, a very rare NT term, but profuse in Philo, including in Migr. 151. If not direct dependence on Migr. 150–151, 2 Peter 1 seems at least to reflect Philonic influence. (Samuel Zinner, email to Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, October 22, 2022, repr. Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, “Understanding the Doctrine of Election: A Closer Look at the Prophet’s 21 May 1843 Discourse on the ‘More Sure Word of Prophecy’,” in Joseph Smith: A Life Lived in Crescendo, ed. Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, 2 vols. [Orem, Utah: The Interpreter Foundation; Salt Lake City: Eborn Books, 2024], 1:239-40 n. 319)

 

 

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Jeffrey M. Bradshaw on Joseph Smith's Claim to be a "rough stone rolling"

 On Joseph Smith’s claim to be a “rough stone rolling” and how it differs from the Freemasonic usage of the concept:

 

There is an important difference between this Masonic imagery and Joseph Smith’s version of the thought. The Prophet avers that his polishing was not so much the result of efforts at self-improvement as it was of “the learning & wisdom of heaven.” This is consistent with the biblical ethos of Exodus 20:25: “And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.” The imagery is also reflected in Daniel’s interpretation of the vision of the stone that was “cut out of the mountain without hands” (that is, cut out through the power of God rather than merely by the efforts of humankind). Recall, in addi­tion, the prophecy by Jesus that contrasted the “temple that is made with hands” (i.e., Herod’s temple) to the temple that would be made “within three days . . . without hands” (i.e., Jesus’s resurrected body).

 

 

We might further ask why one want to polish stones for building purposes before they are brought out of the mountain quarries and onto the construction site? An answer is provided in the description of how such stones were to be prepared for use in Solomon’s temple— eliminating the sound of on-site stone-shaping contributed to the rev­erent atmosphere that should be maintained in the temple:

 

And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was nei­ther hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building. (Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, “Understanding the Doctrine of Election: A Closer Look at the Prophet’s 21 May 1843 Discourse on the ‘More Sure Word of Prophecy’,” in Joseph Smith: A Life Lived in Crescendo, ed. Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, 2 vols. [Orem, Utah: The Interpreter Foundation; Salt Lake City: Eborn Books, 2024], 1:170)

 

 

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Drew Briney on 2 Nephi 2:25 and Mormon 8:38 and the Importance of Correct Punctuation

On 2 Nephi 2:25 and “Adam fell that men might be:”

 

This colon is one of very few punctuation marks that dramatically change the meaning of a passage. Here, the original colon suggests that “men are that they might have joy” is a clarification of “Adam fell that men might be.” One possible reading of this punctuation is that “joy” comes after this life, as a result of the final redemption from the Fall. A semicolon here could simply suggest that we exist to have joy. The colon can be read to have that same implication as well.

 

The difference, of course, is that one suggests joy may only come after this life while the other teaches that joy comes during this life, as a result of the Fall. Because this doctrine is highly controversial and prevalent among some restorationists, we’ve retained the original colon. (The Book of Mormon: 1840 JSV Edition, ed. Drew Briney [JSV Publications, LLC., 2025], 71-72 n. 26)

 

On Mormon 8:38 and “ . . . Why do you not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies, because of the praise of the world?”

 

This possibly unnecessary (and original) comma is one of very few punctuation marks that dramatically change the meaning of a passage. If removed, it states that misery that never dies results from the praise of the world. IF retained (or more properly, replaced) with a question mark, the following phrase can or should be read as a speculative guess—that is, Moroni guesses that his audience believes misery that never dies is greater than happiness because the praises of the world deceive them into believing it is so. (The Book of Mormon: 1840 JSV Edition, ed. Drew Briney [JSV Publications, LLC., 2025], 600 n. 67)

 

 

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Excerpt from the Verbal Statement of Bishop Dennison L. Harris (May 15, 1881)

The following is from the Verbal Statement of Bishop Dennison L. Harris, made by him to President Joseph F. Smith in the presence of Elder Franklin Spencer, in the house of Bishop Carl Christian Nikolai Dorius of Ephraim, Sanpete, Co. Utah, on May 15, 1881:

 

You know Brother Joseph, (here the speaker addressed himself to Bro. Jos. F. Smith) that the Prophet started over the river, just before he gave himself up, to go away; it might be that he intended or meant that he would leave the place, and it might be that he knew that his life would be taken. I could not say as to that.

 

Before leaving Joseph put a seal upon our mouths, and told us to tell nobody not even our fathers for 20 years. He cautioned us very seriously, and I did as he told me. There was one thing that Joseph said which I have not related. He said: they accuse me of polygamy, and of being a false prophet and many other things which I do not now remember; but, said he, I am no false prophet, I am no impostor; I have had no dark revelations, I have had no revelations from the devil. I have made no revelations; I have not got anything up myself. The same God that has thus far dictated and directed me, and inspired me and strengthened me in this work, gave me this revelation and Commandment on Celestial and Plural marriage; and the same God Commanded me to obey it. He said to me that unless I accept it and introduce it and practise it, I together with my people should be damned and cut off from this time henceforth. And they say if I do so and so they will kill me. What shall I do! What shall I do! If I do not practise it I shall be dammed with all my people; if I do teach it and practise it and urge it, they say they will kill me, and I know they will. But said he, we have got to observe it, that it was an eternal principle, and that it was given to him by way of Commandment and not by way of instruction.” (Transcription taken from Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, “Dennison Lott Harris’s Firsthand Accounts of the Conspiracy of Nauvoo and the Transmission of Apostolic Keys,” in Joseph Smith: A Life Lived in Crescendo, ed. Jeffrey M. Bradshaw, 2 vols. [Orem, Utah: The Interpreter Foundation; Salt Lake City: Eborn Books, 2024], 2:909-10, emphasis added)

 

 

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Examples of Christadelphian Commentaries on 1 Corinthians 15:29 and baptism for the dead

As far as I know, I am the Latter-day Saint apologist who has done the most study into the Christadelphian movement. While reading Peter Hemingray’s John Thomas: His Friends and Faith [2d ed.; The Christadelphian Tidings, 2024], I stumbled upon Thomas’s interpretation of 1 Cor 15:29 and “baptism for the dead”:

 

9.—They repudiate everything called baptism, except the “one baptism,” which they regard as a burial with Christ in water into death to sin (Rom. 6:3), in hope of a resurrection from the dead, (1 Cor. 15:29), the obedience of faith. (John Thomas, Letter to the Editor of “The Rock,” December 4, 1869, repr. “Concerning ‘This New Sect,’ the Christadelphians,” The Christadelphian 7, no. 67 [January 1870], 2)

 

Here are other Christadelphian articles in their main publication (their equivalent of our Liahona) addressing 1 Cor 15:29 and “baptism for the dead”:

 

 

What is the baptism for the dead?—(1 Cor. 15:29.)—Q.

 

Answer.—A correspondent says: “A book I have just seen explains this in the light of the fact that there was in the first century an heretical class of people who were baptized on behalf of their dead friends. This seems to fit the matter better than either the ‘elliptical’ or the baptism into Christ’s death. The Greek (nper) also means on behalf.”

 

This may “fit the matter,” but we suspect the fitting is the other way about; that is, the existence of pro-mortem baptists has been invented to explain the apostolic phrase. It is by no means clear that such a class ever existed. The tradition that there were such people, goes back, of course, a long way; but that might easily be traced to the apostle’s words themselves, as giving rise to the idea that there were such people. It is very improbable, even if there were such people, that Paul would virtually endorse their absurd practice by making it an argument for the resurrection. It could not prove the resurrection, but only that such baptisers expected it, which would be rather a weak fact for a logician like Paul to employ. It seems far more reasonable to assume that Paul’s allusion is to something true in itself and recognised by the Corinthians to whom he was writing. Both these features are to be found in baptism. It has to do with death, the dead, and the burial of the dead. It is “a likeness of the death of Christ.”—(Rom. 6:6.) The dead (to sin) are the subjects of it (Rom. 6:2), and it is a burial of such in Christ.—(Col. 2:12.) These things were received by the Corinthians; and Paul might as well ask “if there is no resurrection of the dead, what is the meaning of all this? Do men go through this death-performance for the sake of rejoicing over the curse, or is it not that there is a hope of rising again to which all this points? (“Baptized for the Dead,” The Christadelphian 10, no. 109 [July 1873]: 331-32)

 

 

F. W. L. D. writes:—May I request the favour of an answer to the following, which may, perhaps, be of interest to others.

 

We read in 1 Cor. 15:29: “Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead? . . . why are they then baptized for the dead?

 

In construing Paul’s meaning here, I have hitherto supposed that he used the term “the dead” in reference to Christ, in harmony with the logical deduction he makes earlier in the chapter from the contention of those whom he is correcting, that if there be no resurrection of the dead then is Christ not raised, and, therefore, it would follow that the Corinthian brethren who were baptized for (the putting on of) Christ; were baptized for (the putting on of) the dead, and their baptism was, in that case, a vain and worthless rite.

 

This understanding of the words, however, is upset by the fact that while “the dead” in the A. V. may be understood as being in the singular, the words in the original are distinctly in the plural, as very clearly shown in the “Emphatic Diaglott” (for the use of which I am indebted to a brother), and also in the R. V., in the last clause of the verse.

 

The question arises; in what sense can the brethren be said to be baptized for (or “on behalf of,” as the Diaglott renders it) dead persons? And, also, what dead persons are indicated?

 

In reading the passage, and the chapter of which it forms part, I cannot resist the conclusion that whatever the precise idea intended to be conveyed by the words may be, it was very clear and definite in Paul’s mind, and that he expected, as a matter of course, it would be clearly apprehended by those to whom he wrote. Such being the case, it seems to me that these words should also be understood by the brethren of to-day.

 

Answer.—Our brother’s “wrong conception,” as he styles it in his clearly-put letter, is wrong only as to form, not substance, as he will see in a moment from the following considerations. To take his question: “What dead persons?” Why those, of course, of whom Paul was speaking all through his argument (the term is plural throughout), God’s dead ones whom He proposes to raise, of which a risen Christ, denied by some foolish Corinthians, was the earnest. This plurality in one body had been thus alluded to by the prophet Isaish ages before: “Thy dead shall live, my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead” (26:19). This, as our brother well remarks, was “very clear and definite to Paul’s mind.” Hence he spoke of “Christ the firstfruits, afterwards they that are Christ’s, at his coming.” In putting on Christ in baptism, they are symbolically “baptized into his death.” But not only is there an individual connection with Him. They are baptized (huper ton nekron) “on behalf of the dead ones,” being members of the Spirit’s “dead body,” with which they soon sleep in dust. Christ personal and Christ multitudinous are before us in the apostle’s beautiful argument. (“Baptized for the Dead (1 Cor. 15:29),” The Christadelphian 40, no. 466 [April 1, 1903]: 169)

 

 

Baptism for the Dead: A Mormon Monstrosity.—Marian Bonsall describes, in the August Housekeeper, the extraordinary Mormon belief in “baptism for the dead.” It is a belief that, at the close of the third century a.d., God withdrew His kingdom from the world, and that it was practically lost until 1830, when it was restored through the prophet, Joseph Smith. Since it was not the fault of those who lived before this time that they had not been given an opportunity to embrace the religion of the saints, which the Mormons believe to be the only true religion, it is possible for them to attain salvation by being baptized by proxy, by a Mormon believer. Every conscientious Mormon, therefore, hunts up his family tree, and is baptized individually by immersion, for each of his ancestors of the same sex as himself. Further than this, the more zealous saints are baptized in the temples or in the baptismal houses, for other Gentiles who have died, and with whom they have had no connection, but who have never had an opportunity to embrace their faith. Eventually, the Mormons expect to have given every one the opportunity of accepting their belief in the next world by means of these proxy baptisms. One of the activities of the Mormon missionaries is to gather up genealogies, regardless of any connection of friend or kinship, and send them back to Utah, that devout Mormons may be baptized for these people, long dead, and thus give them their chance of eternal salvation. Hundreds of illustrious persons have thus been baptized by proxy; many of the kings and queens of Europe, all of the Presidents of the United States, except those who were unfriendly to the Mormons. One man is said to have been baptized for each of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, and scores of others have thus been given a chance to accept the true religion, and hence gain salvation after death. One woman in Utah of more than ordinary zeal has been for years spending a day each week in one of the temples, trying to accomplish the baptisms of 12,000 dead ancestors. After months and months of patient baptism, she called her two sons from a ranch in Nevada to come to help her complete the list. She has already been immersed thousands of times, but I have never heard, concludes the writer, if she had, with the aid of her sons, accomplished her whole purpose.—[And yet it is written: “None can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him” (Psa. 49:7). All this nonsense arises out of the fatal dogma of the immortality of the soul, and a singular misinterpretation of Paul’s allusion in 1 Cor. 15:29. “The dead” (plural) of Paul’s allusion are “the dead in Christ,” the dwellers in dust alluded to in Isa. 26:19: “Thy dead shall live—my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing ye that dwell in dust.” Baptism was a symbolic burial with these “dead” in hope of the awakening. See Rom. 6:3–5. It was the obeying from the heart the form of doctrine delivered by the apostles as Christ’s true ambassadors (Ibid. 5:17); and was, of course, restricted in its efficacy to the individuals who thus believed and were baptized. But no “fable” is too absurd for humanity unsubdued by the word of God.—Ed., C.] (“The Cherubic Symbols in Relation to the Four Gospels,” The Christadelphian 42, no. 496 [October 1, 1905]: 445)

 

 

Who are the dead? I gather from page 445, Christadelphian, October, 1905, that you think it plural. I have always understood “the dead” to mean Christ (singular).

 

Answer.—The word is plural in the Greek in both references in the verse in question. But our correspondent’s idea only needs a little enlargement. He will remember that Christ means — first, the Lord Jesus Anointed; and then, more extensively, the multitude “in Christ” with him as their head. Thus in this place “the dead” certainly includes Christ personal, though by an accommodation of language only, for Christ had risen; and this, we suppose, was the reason why the apostle used the plural. The allusion of Isa. 26:19 exactly meets the case, when the Spirit of Christ in the prophet, speaking of the resurrection of God’s people, says: “My dead body, they shall arise.” (Charles Curwen Walker, “’Baptised for the Dead’ (1 Cor. 15:29),” The Christadelphian 43, no. 500 [February 1, 1906]: 75)

 

 

S. says: “Kindly explain ‘baptized for the dead.’”

 

Answer.—This passage has been explained many times over in the pages of The Christadelphian, but it is always being discussed. And the modern discussion seems to tend to obscuration rather than enlightenment. Paul’s argument seems to be obvious enough. “Some” in Corinth denied the resurrection, and consequently were committed to the view that both Christ and his people were “the dead.” Now baptism in Paul’s teaching was not only a symbolic “burial” (Rom. 6.) but a symbolic “resurrection” as well; and there would be no sense in baptism if there were no resurrection. The following from The Speaker’s Commentary strikes us as about the best “explanation” (if any be needed) that we have seen.

 

Paul’s “tone is now vehement, impassioned, indignant. . . . If such a future should be made void by such a theory, if the triumphant issues of Christ’s redemption and regency are a vanity and they are a vanity if resurrection, their basement and foundation, is a vanity. I ask you, if true is the alternative of these free-thinkers that the dead are not raised, what shall they do which receive baptism on account of the dead? i.e., with a view to the resurrection of the dead? The sense in full is: what course shall converts now pursue, who passing through the laver rise out of the water with hearts believing and mouths confessing that the dead shall rise. If your free-thinkers close the very gate of God’s Kingdom, as they do close it, when they deny the resurrection of dead men . . . what in that case are miserable catechumens to do? . . . They will be at their wits end, not knowing what to do. To this effect in substance are the comments of Chrysostom, Theophylact, Theodoret and of many early fathers. From the ancient expositors most of the moderns differ.”

 

It is noted that the preposition huper with the genitive signifies in relation to, concerning, and is as elastic in its meaning as our English word “for.” The Century Dictionary gives no less than 24 different shades of meaning for this preposition. The profane idea of vicarious baptism, that is of living persons baptised instead of or on behalf of dead persons (believers or others who had died unbaptised) is simply not in the text. We incline to the belief that a wresting of the text was the foundation of the heresy. The renderings of the A.V. and R.V. are quite good if rightly understood. What is wanted is an intimate knowledge of Paul’s doctrine from all his epistles (“’Baptized for the Dead’ (1 Cor. 15:29),” The Christadelphian 64, no. 757 [July 1, 1927]: 310-11)

 

 

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Francis J. Hall (Anglican) on the Development of Christology

  

Book VI, Chapter 1, §5

 

Catholic Christians believe that, in arriving at this interpretation, the apostles were led by the Holy Spirit and that the Church was guided by the same Spirit in protecting apostolic Christology by defining its determinative elements. (Francis J. Hall, Anglican Dogmatics, ed. John A. Porter, 2 vols. [Nashotah, Wis.: Nashotah House Press, 2021], 2:9)

 

 

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