I just received an email from Dave Bartosiewicz in response to my post, Matthew 16:19 and the meaning of "keys," "binding," and "loosing" with the heading “You are laughable” so of course, a lot of projection from Dave was contained therein. He made the following “argument” against Joseph Smith:
[L]earn to become a bit more humble. It seems that you think you are a "know it all on every subject" which to me shows a person who has great deal of boasting going on. Maybe you are compensating for something that you don't have. Don't know. You should know that especially since your founder followed the same manner as you:
"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409 Joseph Smith.
There are a number of problems with his use (actually, abuse) of HOC 6:408, 409 and Joseph Smith’s comments.
Firstly, Joseph Smith explicitly stated that he was going to mirror the apostle Paul from 2 Cor 11, where we read the following:
I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little (2 Cor 11:16)
But Dave obviously missed that portion out (let us be honest—he just cut and paste it without reading the portions before and after this section for context). Here is the text immediately preceding Joseph Smith’s comments that Dave and others love to abuse vis eisegesis:
President Joseph Smith read the 11th Chap. 2 Corinthians. My object is to let you know that I am right here on the spot where I intend to stay. I, like Paul, have been in perils, and oftener than anyone in this generation. As Paul boasted, I have suffered more than Paul did. I should be like a fish out of water, if I were out of persecutions. Perhaps my brethren think it requires all this to keep me humble. The Lord has constituted me so curiously that I glory in persecution. I am not nearly so humble as if I were not persecuted. If oppression will make a wise man mad, much more a fool. If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of a mountain and crow like a rooster; I shall always beat them. When facts are proved, truth and innocence will prevail at last. My enemies are no philosophers: they think that when they have my spoke under, they will keep me down--but for the fools, I will hold on and fly over them. (one can find this section of the History of the Church [7 vols.] online here; one can see the handwritten record of this speech as well as the transcript at the Joseph Smith papers here)
One non-LDS scholar recently wrote the following about Paul's "boasting":
Second Corinthians resonates powerfully with Enochic ascent traditions in other ways. Paul was taken up to paradise and the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2, 4). In 2 Enoch paradise, the ultimate abode of the righteous, designed after the garden of Eden, is likewise in the third heaven. In 3 Enoch, the visionary who journeys to heaven is not Enoch, but Rabbi Ishmael. He speaks with Enoch/Metatron in heaven. He reveals divine knowledge to the rabbi. Ishmael’s goal is “to behold the vision of the chariot” (3 En. 1:1). 3 Enoch is an important example of merkabah mysticism, a late antique phenomenon in the context of which rabbis devised various ecstatic techniques one could use to obtain a vision of the “chariot,” a reference to God seated upon his heavenly throne. Paul may have used some of these practices to attain the vision mentioned in 2 Corinthians 12 . . . Paul’s assertion about his vision can also be helpfully interpreted in relation to ancient Jewish accounts of heavenly ascents (2 Cor. 12:6). One of the Dead Sea Scrolls, entitled the Self-Glorification Hymn (4Q491c), contains an account of someone claiming to have had some sort of experience in heaven that transformed him. He asserts that he is now among the angels. He boasts about his transformed status. He asks “Who is comparable to me in my glory?” (line 8) Moreover, the speaker claims that because of this experience, he is able to endure sorrow and suffering as no one else can (line 9).
Paul has a lot to be modest about. Moreover, he asserts that he was given a thorn in the flesh and torments by Satan, so that he may not become too elated (verse 7). He experiences weakness and hardships which he gladly boasts about (verses 11-12). Such boasting makes sense in the context of his view, common throughout his letters, that the heavenly world is radically distinguished from the worldly plane of existence. Weakness, like foolishness, for Paul while bad from a conventional, or one could say “worldly” perspective, become emblems of affinity with heaven (for example, 1 Cor. 1:25-27). Weakness and hardship are, in the mindset of Paul, worthy of boasting. And they, so understood, are not dissimilar to ascent visions, since both signify affinity with the heavenly realm. Paul turns to both his suffering and his ascent to bolster his authority among the Corinthians (2 Cor. 11:7; 12:11). The Self-Glorification Hymn suggests Paul’s combination of these two themes of suffering and ascension is not simply a topos unique to his thought or social situation. It is compatible with how other Jews in antiquity described their visions of heavenly ascent. (Matthew Goff, “Heavenly Mysteries and Otherwordly Journeys Interpreting 1 and 2 Corinthians in Relation to Jewish Apocalypticism” in Gabriele Boaccaccini and Carlos A. Segovia, eds. Paul the Jew: Rereading the Apostle as a Figure of Second Temple Judaism [Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 2016], pp. 133-48, here, pp. 142-144)
One does wonder if Dave will be consistent and condemn the apostle Paul? As an aside, the Self-Glorification hymn from Qumran reads thusly:
1 […] has done awesome things marvellously […] 2 [… in the streng]th of his power the just exult, and the holy ones rejoice in […] in justice 3 […] he established [I]srael from eternity; his truth and the mysteries of his wisdom in al[l generations …] might 4 […] … […] … and the council of the poor for an eternal congregation. […] the perfect ones of 5 [… et]ernal; a mighty throne in the congregation of the gods above which none of the kings of the East shall sit, and their nobles no[t …] silence (?) 6 […] my glory is in{comparable} and besides me no-one is exalted, nor comes to me, for I reside in […], in the heavens, and there is no 7 […] … I am counted among the gods and my dwelling is in the holy congregation; [my] des[ire] is not according to the flesh, [but] all that is precious to me is in (the) glory (of) 8 […] the holy [dwel]ling. [W]ho has been considered despicable on my account? And who is comparable to me in my glory? Who, like the sailors, will come back and tell? 9 […] Who bea[rs all] sorrows like me? And who [suffe]rs evil like me? There is no-one. I have been instructed, and there is no teaching comparable 10 [to my teaching …] And who will attack me when [I] op[en my mouth]? And who can endure the flow of my lips? And who will confront me and retain comparison with my judgment? 11 [… friend of the king, companion of the holy ones … incomparable, f]or among the gods is [my] posi[tion, and] my glory is with the sons of the king. To me (belongs) [pure] gold, and to me, the gold of Ophir 12 […] Blank […] Blank […] 13 [… exult,] just ones, in the God of […] in the holy dwelling, sing for h[im …] 14 [… p]roclaim during the meditation jubilation […] in eternal happiness; and there is no … […] 15 […] to establish the horn of [his] Mess[iah …] 16 […] to make known his power with strength […] 17 […] … […] (Florentino García Martínez and Eibert J.C. Tigchelaar, eds., The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition [Leiden: Brill, 1997], 981)
Secondly, people appointed by God doing greater works than Jesus Himself was promised by none other than Jesus Christ Himself; Dave should do himself a favour and actually read the Bible he believes to be the final authority á la sola scriptura. In John 14:12, we read the following from Jesus:
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
The term translated as "greater" in this verse is μειζονα, the neuter plural accusative comparative form of μεγας. This Greek term does not refer to simply a greater quantity of works done, but a greater quality thereof. Had John wished to convey this, he would have used περισσοτέρως which have the meaning of "more abundantly" (e.g., 2 Cor 1:12).
Μειζονα being used to denote qualitatively greater works can be seen in the following passages in the New Testament:
Greater (μείζονα) love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater (μείζονα) sin. (John 19:11)
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent (μείζονα) way. (1 Cor 12:31)
Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater (μείζονα) riches than treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward. (Heb 11:26)
But he giveth more (μείζονα) grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (Jas 4:6)
In the standard scholarly lexicon of the Greek New Testament, BDAG, the following appears under the definition of μεγας; note how that it references John 14:12 in a similar way to that discussed above (emphasis added):
3. pert. to being above standard in intensity, great δύναμις Ac 4:33; 19:8 D. Esp. of sound: loud φωνή Mk 15:37; Lk 17:15; Rv 1:10; φωνῇ μεγάλῃ (LXX; TestAbr A 5 p. 82, 20f [Stone p. 12]; ParJer 2:2; ApcMos 5:21) Mt 27:46, 50; Mk 1:26; 5:7; 15:34; Lk 4:33; 8:28; 19:37; 23:23 (Φωναῖς μεγάλαις), 46; J 11:43; Ac 7:57, 60; 8:7; Rv 5:12; 6:10 al.; μεγ. φωνῇ (ParJer 5:32); Ac 14:10; 16:28; μεγ. τῇ φωνῇ (ParJer 9:8; Jos., Bell. 6, 188) 14:10 v.l.; 26:24; ἐν φωνῇ μ. Rv 5:2. μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης with a loud trumpet call Mt 24:31. κραυγή (Ex 11:6; 12:30) Lk 1:42; Ac 23:9; cp. μεῖζον κράζειν cry out all the more Mt 20:31. κοπετός (Gen 50:10) Ac 8:2.—Of natural phenomena: ἄνεμος μ. a strong wind J 6:18; Rv 6:13. λαῖλαψ μ. (Jer 32:32) Mk 4:37. βροντή (Sir 40:13) Rv 14:2. χάλαζα Rv 11:19; 16:21a. χάλαζα λίαν μ. σφόδρα AcPl Ha 5, 7. σεισμὸς μ. (Jer 10:22; Ezk 3:12; 38:19; Jos., Ant. 9, 225) Mt 8:24; 28:2; Lk 21:11a; Ac 16:26. γαλήνη μ. a deep calm Mt 8:26; Mk 4:39; φῶς μ. a bright light (JosAs 6:3; ParJer 9:18 [16]; Plut., Mor. 567f: a divine voice sounds forth from this light; Petosiris, fgm. 7, ln. 39 τὸ ἱερὸν ἄστρον μέγα ποιοῦν φῶς) Mt 4:16a; GJs 19:2 (Is 9:1). καῦμα μ. intense heat Rv 16:9 (JosAs 3:3).—Of surprising or unpleasant events or phenomena of the most diverse kinds (ἀπώλεια Dt 7:23; θάνατος Ex 9:3; Jer 21:6; κακόν Philo, Agr. 47) σημεῖα (Dt 6:22; 29:2) Mt 24:24; Lk 21:11b; Ac 6:8. δυνάμεις 8:13. ἔργα μ. mighty deeds (cp. Judg 2:7) Rv 15:3. μείζω τούτων greater things than these J 1:50 (μείζονα v.l.); cp. 5:20; 14:12. διωγμὸς μ. a severe persecution Ac 8:1; θλῖψις μ. (a time of) great suffering (1 Macc 9:27) Mt 24:21; Ac 7:11; Rv 2:22; 7:14. πειρασμός AcPl Ha 8, 22. πληγή (Judg 15:8; 1 Km 4:10, 17 al.; TestReub 1:7; TestSim 8:4; Philo, Sacr. Abel. 134) 16:21b. θόρυβος GJs 21:1; AcPl Ha 1, 28f (restored, s. AcPlTh [Aa I 258, 6]) λιμὸς μ. (4 Km 6:25; 1 Macc 9:24) Lk 4:25; Ac 11:28; ἀνάγκη μ. Lk 21:23; πυρετὸς μ. a high fever (s. πυρετός) 4:38.—Of emotions: χαρά great joy (Jon 4:6; JosAs 3:4; 4:2 al.; Jos., Ant. 12, 91) Mt 2:10; 28:8; Lk 2:10; 24:52. φόβος great fear (X., Cyr. 4, 2, 10; Menand., fgm. 388 Kö.; Jon 1:10, 16; 1 Macc 10:8; TestAbr B 13 p. 117, 18 [Stone p. 82]; JosAs 6:1; GrBar 7:5) Mk 4:41; Lk 2:9; 8:37; Ac 5:5, 11; AcPl Ha 3, 33. θυμὸς μ. fierce anger (1 Macc 7:35) Rv 12:12. μείζων ἀγάπη greater love J 15:13. λύπη profound (Jon 4:1; 1 Macc 6:4, 9, 13; TestJob 7:8) Ro 9:2. σκυθρωπία AcPl Ha 7, 36. πίστις firm Mt 15:28. ἔκστασις (cp. Gen 27:33; ParJer 5:8, 12) Mk 5:42.
Louw-Nida offers this definition of μεγας:
78.2 μέγας, μεγάλη, μέγα ; μεγάλως ; μέγεθος, ους n: the upper range of a scale of extent, with the possible implication of importance in relevant contexts - 'great, greatly, greatness, to a great degree, intense, terrible.' μέγας: δυνάμει μεγάλῃ 'with great power' Ac 4.33; καῦμα μέγα 'great heat' or 'intense heat' Re 16.9. μεγάλως: ἐχάρην δὲ ἐν κυρίῳ μεγάλως 'I rejoice in the Lord greatly' Php 4.10. In a number of languages the expression of intense degree associated with some activity or state is expressed by means of a verb, not an adverb, so that one may render Php 4.10 literally as 'I am-intense joyous in the Lord,' in which the form 'am-intense' is an attempt to represent a verb expression in such a language. μέγεθος: τὸ ὑπερβάλλον μέγεθος τῆς δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ 'his exceedingly great power' Eph 1.19. In Eph 1.19 there are two expressions of degree, ὑπερβάλλον (treated in 78.33) and μέγεθος, which, though syntactically the head of the phrase, is semantically an expression of degree with δύναμις 'power' (76.1).
One could go on, but it is clear that (1) Dave simply copied and pasted from a random Website without checking the context of Joseph Smith’s words; (2) the apostle Paul, if Dave were to be consistent, would have to be condemned, too, and (3) John 14:12 is a definitive refutation of his “argument” against Joseph Smith.
Dave titled his email to me "You are laughable." He should have renamed it "You will laugh" or "My research skills are laughable" if he were more honest, though I do thank him for giving me another opportunity to refute him and a long-standing argument that is often used against the Church and the Prophet Joseph Smith.
