Argument for the ability
of saints to hear us:
1. Objection 1:
Revelation 5, 6, and 8:
Three passages in Revelation are often
brought up to prove the ability of saints to hear us: 5:8, 6:9-10, and 8:1-5.
These are handled in order:
Revelation 5:8: Now when He had taken
the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before
the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the
prayers of the saints.
In this passage, we do not know to
whom these prayers belong, apart from that they are form the saints broadly
speaking; that is, we do not know if the saints mentioned in 5:8 are saints in
heaven or on earth. The former is certainly a possibility as we see later in
chapter 6 that the saints in heaven are praying to God prayers of their own.
The immediate context before 5:8 lends no help to identifying these saints. Immediately
after in verse 9-14, prayers are made by the entire company of heaven, and the
saints on earth are not mentioned. If we make the assumption that the saints in
5:8 are the saints on earth, this still does not prove the capability of saints
in heaven hearing what we pray on earth. For these prayers and offerings of the
congregation to God and doesn’t know all the particular prayers spoken or the
exact quantities of goods and currency or who brought them.
Revelation 6:9-10: When He opened the
fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the
word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud
voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our
blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
This passage mentions nothing of
prayers of saints on earth, communication between worlds, or saints interceding
for those on earth. It only mentions those in heaven praying to God for their
own request, so it proves unrelated to the discussion at hand.
Revelation 8:1-5: When He opened the
seventh sela, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the
seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. Then
another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was
given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the
saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the
incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God form the angel’s
hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and
threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightening,
and an earthquake.
The 6th century bishop Primascius
Hadrumetum interprets this to be Christ:
He is said to have received the same thing
from the prayers of the saints, and to have offered it, because through him the
process of all people can easily reach God. Hence the Apostle [writes] (Hebrews
13:15), “by Him let us continually offer the sacrifices of praise to God, that
is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name.” (Hadrumetum, Primascius,
Commentary on Revelation, bk III. Original translation by Seth Kasel, PL
68:855)
And Primascius’ interpretation aligns
well with Hebrews 9:24: “For Christ has not entered the holy places made with
hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in
the presence of God for us,” Malachi 3:1: “And the Lord whom you seek, Will
suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger [Angel] of the covenant,” and
Luke 12:41: “I [Christ] came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were
already kindled!” Further, this is the only description in Revelation in which
prayers of all the saints are being offered at once; who should be more
fittingly described here but Christ who intercedes and mediates for all the
saints? But if it should not be taken to be Christ but instead an angel, there remains
still the fact that these prayers are offered collectively as in chapter 5, so
the prayers themselves need not be known by the one offering them.” (Seth Kasten,
Against the Invocation of Saints: An Apology for the Protestant Doctrine of
Prayer Over and Against the Doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church [Royal
Oak, Mich.: Scholastic Lutherans, 2023], 130-32)
